Is Ali the No.1 h2h Heavyweight?

Ali had decent intelligence (like most champions) but his vaunted ring IQ wasn't exceptional.

Ali fanatics don't have opinions worth listening to.

Great. I expect Beterbiev to knock Ali out.
Cooper, a fat LHW, put Ali's lights out.

 

Did I miss that? Looks like Ali stopped him.

 

Did I miss something? Fury stopped Cunningham.

 

Do you realize Cooper was about 6'2 and was 185 in the first fight against Ali and almost 190 in the second fight ? He'd be an absolutely huge LHW if he fought today and he was known for his powerful left hook. The reality is that Cooper is better than Beterbiev because Cooper destroyed every LHW sized guy he fought and when i mean every LHW sized guy i mean the 180-190 pound guys who are BIGGER than most modern light heavyweights . And he and had success at heavyweight against guys over 200 pounds. Lets see Beterbiev move up to cruiserweight and see what he does(LOL)

Ali got put down by Cooper but he's also eaten blows from Foreman and Shavers well past his prime wheras Fury got put down by featherfisted Cunningham, put down by weak puncher Neven Pijkac, Hurt by Otto Wallin in the 12th, put on bambi legs by 24% KO ratio Nicolai Firtha and of course put down by Wilder twice.

You're comparison makes no sense. Like i said, in Fury's own words he struggled with Cunningham because Cunningham was slick, small and light on his feet. This is literally in his own words. But Ali has no chance right ? LOL ridiculous

 

Do you realise Beterbiev fought at HW in amateur boxing? He lost to Usyk during London 2012 Olympics.

Modern LHWs cut down from high 180s or even as high as 190 lbs. Crawford at LW was cutting roughly 15 lbs.

Fury has never been knocked down by a LHW.

Foreman did so badly agaisnt the ropes that he couldn't give Ali a punch on the head. FWIW he beat Ali's body very badly.

Jimmy Young also took Foreman's blows. I guess Young also beats Fury?

Shavers is an overrated puncher, a glass cannon with subpar KO rate against men of relevant size.

Ali got putdown by fat LHW cooper.

Piljkac is at least a HW, not a small cruiser or LHW.
Frazier also put Ali down.

Ali's record is even worse. He was put down by 191 lbs Sonny Banks.

I am sure Ali's small stature will make him troublesome for a few rounds, then Fury batters him like a training dummy.

 

I dont understand why dont people see George punch power was overrated it was no names that always took George punches it never was like a lennox or cooney or even ron where they could hurt you real fast jim wasnt known to be tough and took mutiple shots like you said

I dont count earn not able to ko people a lack of power but finish I seen his matches mutiple times he would see a person hurt and not finish then dont know why but his power is way overrated
he is called the hardest puncher even though he wasnt

why would somebody call a person the hardest puncher when they didnt fight the toughest dudes and didnt have good tech all the time or timing it's been mutiple harder hitters cause larry and ali said they didnt fight all the hardest hitters so why go off words and pretend he was in the ring when he wasnt

 

Shavers was punching men who would be small to average cruiserweights today. Punchers like Klitschko regularly knock out much bigger men with one punch.

Some people do not want to admit that power and strength have increased since the 1970s.

 

Did it happen in the pros though ? Because if not then the point is relatively irrelevant. Beterbiev doesn't even want to move up to cruiser LOL.

Cooper destroyed everyone in the 180-190 weight class and even beat every guy who was under 195lb except 193lb Floyd Patterson but I'd bet the house on Patterson folding Beterbiev too. All these 190+ guys that Cooper ran through would be absolutely huge LHWs today. How many big LHWs did Beterbiev actually beat ?

Well he was knocked down by a pillowfisted blown up cruiser who likely punches even weaker than Henry Cooper(LOL)

He tagged Ali several times, did you even watch the fight. Also if Fury's getting outboxed and put fown by featherfisted Cunningham I'd give Jimmy Young a pretty good chance because Young was far faster and had better head movement.

Because he didn't fight a lot of big guys, but everyone who fought him claimed he hit harder than Foreman and his KO ratio supports that. Bert Cooper was said to hit harder than Mike Tyson by Oliver Mccall himself despite the fact that Cooper was even smaller and had a far inferior KO ratio but thats because Mike Tyson had a significantly better delivery system. In raw power however Cooper could have easily hit harder. This is what casuals like you don't understand.

And Fury got put down by a total featherfisted cruiser who had no power. Henry Cooper probably did hit harder

Total featherfisted heavyweights who wouldn't even be hard punching cruiserweights LOL. And Frazier kncoked down Ali After an accumulation of shots, he wasn't one shotted and wobbled by Pillowfisted Cunningham

Why would Ali get dominated and beaten up. Fury was getting outboxed by 36 year old robotic Cunningham ffs. Ali would slip and pivot out of range. Name something Cunningham was better than Ali at ? Nothing lol. Ali was quicker with his hands, had quicker feet, could pivot better, had better head movement, had a better jab, hit harder, had better ring iq and had the chin to withstand Fury's blows. He was better than Cunningham in every department. He would outslick and outbox Fury just like Cunningham did and would probably out him down. Fury isn't getting the KO even if he knocked Ali down because Ali had excellent recovery abilities. It would go the distance and Ali would win a decision.

The reality is that Fury himself said Cunninghams slickness and mobility gave him issues. You have direct evidence of a small heavyweight giving him problems and you want to throw it under the rug like a bonehead, you also going to throw under the rug that Fury himself said Cunningham was his hardest fight ? LOL ridiculous

 

it's crazy it can be seen on vid he wasnt the hardest hitter compared to others people act blind

 

Just because in olden days everything above 175 lbs was HW territory people like you pretend Cooper was comparable to modern HWs.
Why would Beterbiev move up to cruiser when he would be outweighed by a good 20 or 25 lbs? Modern CWs weigh 210 to 215 lbs in the ring.

I would bet on Beterbiev folding Cooper and Patterson.

Only in Classic Boxing fantasy land people assume that a 185+ lbs guy punches harder than a 230+ lbs man.

Jimmy Young knocked down Foreman so I suppose he could also knock Goku out.
Young was slower than Cunningham.

Case closed then. Your hypothesis cannot be falsified.

Prove that Cooper's left hook was more powerful than Cunningham's overhand right.

This forum is full of "experts" who are weak in logic and resoning but full of nostalgia and bull****. Unless proven otherwise I have no reason to believe Shavers punched harder than Wilder.

Adonis Stevenson punches harder than Cooper.

Why should I believe your bull**** claims? You have not produced any proof.

 

Shavers probably doesn't hit as hard as guys like Wladmir or Wilder but he could definitely crack. Size doesn't mean EVERYTHING. A 210 pound guy can punch as hard as a 245 pound guy due to genetics. It's not impossible. Spar enough heavyweights and cruisers and you'll find cruisers who hit just as hard

 

LOL because Henry Cooper basically fought cruiserweights unlike Beterbiev and fought 185-210 pound guys which is "LHW" to Cruiserweight sized opponents. Thats the point you couldn't comprehend. Hard headed to compare Beterbiev to Cooper to prove your point when Cooper was a bigger LHW and basically fought in 2 weight classes compared to him. Henry Coopers only loss to a "LHW" sized guy was a loss against Floyd Patterson who is bigger than Beterbiev and weighed more than anyone he faced as a pro and was more skilled. In addition to that Floyd Patterson was beating guys over 200 pounds at that stage of his career and only lost to guys who were bigger than Beterbiev.

Based on what ? Because Patterson and Cooper got KO'd by guys who were much bigger and better than Beterbiev ? Do you think Beterbiev would beat Sonny Liston ? Or Quarry ? Or Johansson ? Because they're all larger than Beterbiev or all of his opponents. You think size means everything so it's ironic for you to say something like that.

It's not impossible, if you've actually put the gloves on and sparred numerous guys that size you'd know that. A hard punching 185 pound guy can punch harder than a pillowfisted 230 pound guy. Have you ? Have you really ?

Young was slower than Cunningham ? lol the stuff you type in this forum is delusional.

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Jimmy Young could throw far quicker flurries and edges Cunningham out in terms of jab speed and head movement.

A lot of things can't be falsified, just like you claiming Fury beats Ali, or Beterbiev beats Patterson. These claims can't be falsified because these guys can't fight eachother. LOL at the attempt to try and sound smart. I never said Shavers hits as hard as Wilder although I think Shavers was still a hard puncher however for my main hypothesis im using evidence to support the fact that prime Ali beats Fury because stylistically Fury struggled with a horrible bootleg version of Ali named Steve Cunningham.

You can't find physical evidence, because it's all hypothetical. This is a hypothetical discussion, but he did had a higher KO ratio fighting similar sized guys. Thats almost all you can work with. And in addition to that Henry Cooper was known to have a powerful left hook. Cunningham was known to have a powerful nothing.

I never said Shavers hit harder than Wilder. Funny thing though, Wilder weighed 213 against Fury and Fury claimed he hit incredibly hard.

Based on what ? Based on nothing substantial. Henry Cooper destroyed guys bigger than Adonis Stevenson. You're telling me to provide proof then write this bull****. Ridiculous.

produce proof for this dumbass claim then(LOL)

 

that is right people do always say how a joe Louis which looked to me 180-190 could beat lennox and any other big name which is strange cause he had bad footwork and defense and wasnt hard to hurt

jim did put down George he wasnt a big or known to be a great sharp puncher but he was stinging George easy who was known to be super tough which is a lie in his young days

and people like to generalize here been doing it for years when it comes to power they will say in general which is a lie that earn hit the hardest or George
with deontay and earn on power deontays long range right is stronger then earns long range right
from mid range earn right hand is stronger it looks real strong

I said for the joe louis era that they wouldnt cause the same amount of damage had they been in 70s-90s that era is not overrated it's just trash people will say max galento joe and schmeling hit hard they did but not compared to the years I said to act like they would still do that damage or beat anybody in the years I said is ridiculous

did you see how mark said cause of he said t quote

even though I said we shouldnt go off words he still said that quote which is flawed

I never have and never will go off of quotes of a man ali and anybody else that said earn hit the hardest is flawed its outdated and not valid cause boxers came after him who not only cause stoppages with less punches but a ko with less punches

 

In his first (peak) career Foreman had 47 fights.

4 people lasted the distance with him.

In his 8th fight a guy with 35 fights and a winning record lasted the scheduled 8 rounds. Hardly surprising.

In his 12th fight a guy with 43 fights lasted 10. Hardly outrageous. He was dropped and lost all 10 rounds on every card.

In his 16th fight a strong chinned guy with 90 fights (77 wins) went 10. He was stopped in a rematch which was only the second time he'd ever been stopped excluding cuts.

Then there's Young, a real slickster who Foreman tried to box and had out on his feet with a single shot. Young did not take many clean shots at all.

Bizarre claims.

What fights have you "seen" where he hurt someone and did not stop them? You'd be limited to 2 max in his prime career.

Tyson had Douglas down and didn't finish him. He had Tillis down and didn't finish him. He couldn't finish Blood, Bonecrusher, who had been stopped by an aging Holmes went 12. There's Foreman well and truly passed. It happens to the best of them.