Is any prime HW unbeatable?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014.


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  1. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    66-67 Ali. That's it.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    #1
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    That Ali is entirely beatable as are all fighters.
     
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    #2
  3. Jester

    Jester Active Member Full Member

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    Any fighter can be beaten. Mid to late 60's Ali is probably the most dangerous h2h heavy ever, but there are still guys who could pull off a victory against him.
     
    Jester, Oct 23, 2014
    Jester, Oct 23, 2014
    #3
  4. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Nobody beat's prime Ali. Past prime Ali beat every top contender in the golden age of boxing.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    #4
  5. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He got a few gift decisions along the way
     
    ForemanJab, Oct 23, 2014
    ForemanJab, Oct 23, 2014
    #5
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    He didn't really fight top flight competition in 66-67.. London was old and losing far more often than winning. Foley was 36 years old and go .500 over the little bit left of his career. Cleveland Williams was walking punching bag by that point. Terrell was a decent win, tho Spencer and Mando Ramos beat him in his next two fightsÂ…

    Not exactly the record of legends...
     
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    #6
  7. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I honestly think the gift decisions bull**** were myths. I bet you if Frazier almost dropped Ali in the second fight instead of vice versa, that people would be saying "no doubt Ali was done." Ali just "recieved another gift"
     
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    #7
  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    louis beat better fighters after he returned to boxing. using your logic louis was also prime when he came back to boxing.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    #8
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Have you seen Norton III or the Young fight?
     
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    #9
  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    I was the biggest Ali hater those days. I tried to scored this fight without any bias and even tho deep down I would've wanted Norton to win on my scorecard he didn't.

    Norton won rounds: 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 14

    Ali won rounds: 1, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, and 15

    Drew rounds: 4 and 12

    Even round 4 could've been tipped in Ali's favor looking back so all in all there was no robbery I think Ali won fair and square. Almost everyone in the arena basically had the bout come down to the 15th round which Ken gave away by landing one jab in the first two minutes and a total of two up to the last thirty seconds, he gave the round and fight away. Norton has no one to blame but himself. The Associated press had the bout 8-6-1 Ali while UPI had it by round 8-7 for Norton, and the London Daily Mirror 6-6-3, all razor close in a very close fight won by Ali. (Unofficial punch counts done by various observers is 281 landed by Ali and 199 Norton for the bout).
    As for the Young bout, The referee warned Young repeatedly for hitting below the belt early on, but then he just forgot about it while Young continued to do it. So while some people may have scored these flurries as points for Young, I didn't because they were illegal.
    Secondly, it could have counted as a knockdown against Jimmy when he stuck his head and body outside the ring. In the tenth round, Ali actually tried punching Jimmy while he ducked outside the ring. But the referee pulled him off.
    No robbery in that one.
     
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    swagdelfadeel, Oct 23, 2014
    #10
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    OK, at least you have seen and scored it. I thought Ali lost both fights. But that was late-stage Ali anyway not the guy from the 60's...
     
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    Seamus, Oct 23, 2014
    #11
  12. Ken Ashcroft

    Ken Ashcroft Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Was the 60s Ali considered unbeatable at the time or is it only now in the present by people looking back, that he is considered so?
     
    Ken Ashcroft, Oct 23, 2014
    Ken Ashcroft, Oct 23, 2014
    #12
  13. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Tyson. All day ay ee day!
     
    Sangria, Oct 23, 2014
    Sangria, Oct 23, 2014
    #13
  14. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I scored both fights for Ali's opponents too. Norton by one round where many rounds were close and Young by two rounds in a more clean cut fight.
     
    The Long Count, Oct 23, 2014
    The Long Count, Oct 23, 2014
    #14
  15. ForemanJab

    ForemanJab Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Here is a compubox total for the Ali vs Norton 3 fight: http://www.b0xingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=muhammad-ali-ken-norton-compubox (replace 0 with o)


    Total/ Jabs/ Power punches
    Ali 199/709 71/345 128/364
    28% 20% 35%



    Norton 281/635 94/289 187/346
    44% 33% 54%

    Norton outlanded Ali in 10 of the 15 rounds

    Having watched the fight I scored it 10-5 in favor of Norton. The numbers basically confirm such a score. Norton completely dominated that fight and it truly was one of the worst robberies in HW championship history. The crowd couldn't believe it, the commentators couldn't believe it and even Ali himself couldn't believe it.
    In my opinion Norton should rightfully be 3-0 against Ali.

    I thought he handily lost the Young fight as well. Ali got the decision based on who he was rather than what he actually did in that fight, which was pretty much nothing.
    Shavers should have gotten the nod against Ali too. I scored that one 9-6 for Shavers. He really gave Ali a beating.

    Ali's post Manila title reign was a complete sham considering all the robberies and soft touch defenses against stiffs like Dunn, Evangelista, Coopman and Spinks(who he actually lost to!). He should have retired after edging the half blind overweight corpse of Joe Frazier.
     
    ForemanJab, Oct 23, 2014
    ForemanJab, Oct 23, 2014
    #15
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