Is anyone here old enough to remember Frazier losing the title to Foreman?

I watched the Frazier-Foreman fight on closed circuit TV. Up until that time, Frazier was viewed as a tank, rolling through whatever the opposition threw at him and grinding them down. He had been criticized for taking on Daniels and Stander in the year following FOTC, but he was still the undefeated, undisputed heavyweight champion. Foreman was undefeated also, but few gave him much chance against Joe. Many sportswriters wrote that while Foreman is the heir apparent to the championship after Joe and Ali retired, he still wasn't in Frazier's league. They felt he would lose this fight, but the experience would help him further down the road. And Frazier himself obviously underrated George as he was ten pounds heavier than his FOTC weight and he did look soft. George was to be a tuneup for the Frazier-Ali rematch. I remember seeing Joe on the Tonight Show about a month before the fight and he was punching the light bag. On one occasion he threw a left hook at the light bag and completely missed it. I noticed that right away but didn't think it was a bad omen of anything. I still figured him to win. Like everyone else in the theatre, I was stunned with that first knockdown. But Joe got up and kept coming forward. I still thought he'd find a way to win until that second knockdown near the end of the round. George hit him on the jaw with an uppercut and he went down in a heap, and I didn't think he would get up. But he did. When George picked up in the second round where he had left off, I knew that it was over for Joe. So thorough was the beating that I did not think Joe would fight again.

For some time, Joe Frazier had an aura of invincibility. He was a rough, tough brawler who was willing to take a couple shots on his way in to land damage of his own. Regarding his nickname 'Smokin' Joe', he said, "I come out smokin' and I stay that way." He had an amazing workrate and the endurance to go along with it. After those two rounds in Kingston, the aura of invinibility was completely obliterated. A short time later Joe appeared in the Superstars competition. While his performance there really was respectable, he was competing against other professional athletes and his performance was deemed substandard by comparison. On this forum, I have seen him described as a one-armed fighter and "a weakling" and someone who wouldn't stand a chance against today's heavies. But those of us who saw him rise to the championship will remember a different Frazier - a powerful, hungry, motivated fighter who was all heart and whose vocabulary did not include the words 'quit' nor 'defeat.'

 

I was too young to see the fight, in Foreman's book he talks about fearing Frazier. That when he stared Joe down, he hoped Frazier wouldn't look down because his knees were shaking, and when he scored the first knockdown, he thought "oh no, now Frazier's gonna get mad!".
George was viewed as a good prospect had an Olympic Gold Medal, but was largely untested in his pro career at the time, I believe he was a 4-1 underdog. Wasn't the fight also historical for being the first fight ever broadcast on HBO Network?

 

Cosell did the delayed? I wonder how delayed, because I remember HC screaming really well.

Neither my Dad nor I knew who would be the winner. I thought for sure it was a closed-circuit fight. The things that's getting to me is...did the Cosell broadcast come late enough to where the world already knew Foreman lost? Because we had no clue.

I don't think you're nit-picky, I'm going to have to ask my Dad next time I call him. I'm confused myself.

All I know is, it was quite the boxing revelation. I always liked Marvel comics villains, and I imagined George was like that...Thud-Man!

 

At first I took issue with George's proclaimed fear of Joe, because he was looking super mean and nasty during the staredown.

But hey, Joe was undefeated at the time and beat an undefeated Ali. He was in some ways the Tyson of that era, a relentless, swarming animal with vicious intent. George had beaten some very good contenders, but hey, talk about untested at the time.

People won't like this, but FOTC Frazier imo would have Smoked his way inside on Foreman and wore him down with the hooks to the body and tight shots to the head.

Foreman didn't beat prime Frazier imo. That Joe left the building after FOTC, and that night he was the best heavyweight fighter ever. I realize this won't be popular, but I'll never get that look of Frazier's FOTC face out of my mind. The most determined, righteously pissed off...just had ENOUGH of Ali and his clowning look.

 

All someone has to do is watch any of Joe's fights to see Joe had a formidable right hand. Check out the destructions of Quarry to see how extra effective the right hand could be.

It's just that his hook was SO exceptional, so he threw it a lot.

To me a one-handed fighter was pre-Steward Lewis (and let's face it, that Lewis was NO JOE FRAZIER by any stretch of the imagination. Now, Steward-era Lewis is a different story, amazing boxer).

 

I was a toddler.

 

Jeffries certainly was the sentimental choice. Johnson destruction and outclass of Jeffries added much credibility to his “unbeatable” status.

Suggest you read newspaper accounts of the day. If you do it becomes obvious that Johnson was thought of as unbeatable. Willard with his immense size, strength and toughness and after knocking out Johnson was then considered unbeatable.

In more modern eras Liston after beating Patterson twice, Frazier after beating Ali in 71, Foreman after beating Frazier and then Norton were also all thought of as unbeatable hwt champions. You probably don’t know this either!

 

Frazier is a classic example of a one armed fighter. In boxing terminology that does not mean a fighter can’t throw a right hand. It means lack of coordination between left and right hands along with over reliance of one hand over another.

Watch say Ali Frazier 1 and count how many left hooks Frazier throws and lands to Ali’s head vs right hands. There is your answer.

Frazier did throw right hands to the body as this is a static target with less need for coordination/timing.

 

Nope, Jeffries was the betting favourite. Johnson was perceived as being past prime when he fought Willard,reports of his previous fights concluded he had ,"gone back".

 

Frazier didn't beat a prime Ali either,we never saw that version!

 

You're spot on! Joe used his right to good effect especially in the second Ali fight and the second Quarry fight as well. The left hook was his bread-and-butter punch and that just overshadowed all else.

 

As I recall, Don Dunphy did the closed-circuit TV broadcast and he may have had others assisting him. I do remember him talking with Joe Louis and Angelo Dundee during the broadcast. In fact they were talking with Dundee when Foreman scored the first knockdown. Howard Cosell covered the fight for Wide World of Sports, which aired the following Saturday afternoon. I remember near the end of the closed circuit broadcast the camera showed Howard Cosell for a moment and something of a roar went up from the audience.

 

I remember that pre-fight staredown on the large closed-circuit screen. The telecast was in black and white, which along with the much larger than life images on the screen, heightened the dramatic effect. When the camera focused on Frazier, the crowd let out a roar. Then the camera focused on an angry-looking Foreman staring disdainfully down at Joe, and the crowd went wild! If George was scared of Joe then, he surely covered it well! George may have been magnanimous in his book in looking back on the incident. He must have been filled with nervous energy but he channeled it extremely well!