Is Archie Moore a Top Fifteen Heavyweight from 1900 - 1960 ?

Let’s crunch some numbers...

His record competing in the heavyweight division was an incredible 65-4-2

Against men at 200lb or above..Archie Moore went 22-1 with 19 Knockouts. The lone loss to Muhammad Ali. So he carried his power well against the big men.

From 1949-1955 he went on an incredible 45-1 record and dispatched most of the top men in the heavyweight division

He fought all of these men whom ranked in the heavyweight division RING Magazine top 10 at one point in their careers

Nino Valdes 2x
Clarence Henry
Bob Baker
Bob Satterfield
Harold Johnson 4x
Willie Pastrano
Jimmy Bivins 5x
Muhammad Ali
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Joey Maxim 3x
Alejandro Lavorante
Rusty Payne
Ezzard Charles 3x
Hatchetman Sheppard
Buddy Walker
Karel Sys
Alberto Santiago Lovell
Bob Dunlap 2x
Bert Whitehurst 2x
Jimmy Slade
Charley Norkus
Willi Besmanoff
Guilio Rinaldi


He dominated an impressive trio of Henry, Valdes, Baker who all were rated top 3 in the world and in serious contention for a title shot vs Marciano. Valdes, in particular was number 1 in the world when Moore knocked him off. These three men were generally considered the biggest and most dangerous young contenders in the division. His brutal knockout over number 4 in the world 6’3 215lb Alejandro lavorante at age 45 is an impressive result.

You look at the 1900-1955 window...

Guys like. Marciano, Johnson, Dempsey Louis Jeffries, schmeling, Tunney, Baer, Charles, Walcott, Langford, Wills, Corbett, sharkey, fitzsimmons

I do think he has a case for the top 15...right in the 12-15 range

 

Moore’s style translates well into the heavyweight division. He had long arms, he was highly intelligent, an elite counterpuncher, good upper body movement, and he was very strong. He had one punch knockout power in his right hand, and was an all time great finisher. He was as cagey and crafty as they get with a big punch

Here are some of Moore’s best performances as a heavyweight

In 1951 vs 6’2 215lb Embrell Davidson

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In 1953 vs 6’3 215lb 80” reach Nino Valdes

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1952 vs jimmy Slade

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1951 vs Jimmy Bivins

 

The Rock was shorter, and with a lesser reach than Moore;
would The Rock have gotten inside on a much taller, prime Valdez?

 

He maybe creeps in at 14 /15 I would place .
Jeffries
Johnson
Langford
Wills
Jeannette
Dempsey
Tunney
Schmeling
Sharkey[ the best version]
Baer
Louis
Charles
Walcott
Marciano
Above him.

 

I don't know that he beats Schmeling, in a series he wins over Sharkey ,but the best version of the Gob probably beats him imo.I'm not sure Moore could beat George Godfrey and I'd pick Wills to beat him.

 

Yes..

Valdes did not fight tall. While he occasionally showed flashes of it by throwing a nice left jab and standing tall..most of the time, he enjoyed a good brawl..he would engage the smaller man to fight in the trenches with him where he felt he could use his strength, uppercuts, and hooks to demolish the smaller man. Sometimes it worked (Jackson Neuhaus, Charles, Erskine) other times it didn’t (satterfield Mcbride Machen H Johnson)

Valdes had the tools to hurt Marciano..size, power, reach, uppercuts...but Marciano was the rings ultimate animal. In order to beat him, you have to either blow him out early (which Valdes wasn’t great enough to do) or put your own body through hell for 15 rounds trying to outpoint him. Valdes didn’t have the heart, durability, or mental toughness to put his body through that and survive a meat grinder with the Rock.

Stylistically, fighting in the trenches is the worst thing you can do against Marciano. Marciano would take your heart away. He would throw the kitchen sink at you for 15 rounds, non stop, high volume, hitting you anywhere and everywhere. It breaks your soul. Makes you want to give up. And he always had that right hand ready to take you out...by round 9 valdes would have been looking for a way out. Marciano would have finished him right around that time. Good fight, wish it had happened

 

It's an interesting question. His record is very impressive.

But I'd say no. Not top 15.

Moore faltered against his fair share of no-names, too. And he got stopped by some.

Off the top, I'd make Sonny Liston, Floyd Patterson, Rocky Marciano, Ezzard Charles, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Jack Johnson, Jersey Joe Walcott and Gene Tunney clear favorites over him. And some of them, like Dempsey and Liston and Louis, would've IMO just brutalized him.

Nino Valdes was built like Max Baer, and Nino did okay against Moore (their rematch was closer). At his best, Baer was A LOT better than Valdes, I think most would agree. Could Moore beat Baer? Maybe? Could Moore beat Schmeling? Maybe, I don't know. Could he even beat Johansson? Who knows? Bobbing and weaving in punching range of Ingo didn't help Floyd.

When you can think of 10 or 11 who'd you give him little to no chance of beating, it's hard to put him in the top 15.

Moore wasn't a dancer or a runner. Which kind of hurts him in this instance. Hell, Moore may have had a hard time outworking Primo, crouching down like Moore did.

If he was more of a dancer, who moved in and out quickly, I'd probably give him more of a chance. Or even if he moved clumsily in and out of range, like Michael Spinks did. But Archie sort of remained right in there, so he'd have been in a lot of shootouts.

Moore was very good. If he's not in the top 15, he's still up there ... not too far out of the mix.

But not top 15.

 

You clearly didn’t read the thread title carefully because OP specifically referred to top 15 only from Jeffries-Marciano.

And I stopped taking your post seriously when you predicted carnera might beat Moore.


Moore would obliterate carnera

 

His record at heavyweight was 65-4-2....

His three losses came against prime ATGs Marciano Patterson and Ali. His 4th loss came in an over the weight bout against guilini when Moore was 44 years old, which he avenged 3 months later.

So name me where Moore faltered against his fair share of no names at heavyweight? Moore was the model of consistency

Who were these no names who stopped him at heavyweight?

 

How often was baer at his best?

In Bears prime He lost to les Kennedy, Ernie schaff, Tommy Loughran, Johnny Risko, Paolino Uzcuden, Willie Davies, Jim Braddock, Tommy Farr...

Would Archie lose to any of those men even on an off night?

 

I thing Archie would beat them all except for Marciano,Louis & perhaps Dempsey & Walcott. Schmeling, Johnson & Tunney offer a challenge but Archie could hit and very savy
others
Mongoose KO over Baker, Harold Johnson, Bivins wins over Maxim, Valdez,Satterfield, show him to be able to beat many types

I think Yes