Is Archie Moore a Top Fifteen Heavyweight from 1900 - 1960 ?

I've got to go.

Talk to you later.

 

Seriously, Scott wasn't all that good. You earlier compared him to Valdes, but I don't think he is in Valdes' class even though I don't quite share Suzie's high regard for Valdes. If Schmeling hadn't improved from 1925 he wouldn't have been in the tournament.

For me, Carnera aside, Moore's heavyweight resume is decidedly better than that of Gains. If you are going to rate Gains above him, you have to rely on the Carnera victory.

Gains certainly had an excellent chance of beating the early 1930's champions, especially Sharkey, and he actually beat Carnera. The Schmeling of the 1930's I think would have been a whole different matter from the Schmeling of 1925.

But, I must say, I think if Moore had fought the 1933 Sharkey for the title rather than Marciano, he would probably have become champion also.

 

Enjoyed it.

 

Who is rating Moore above Walcott?

 

That "fading" champ took a prime Marciano 15 very close rounds a year later

 

So despite you hollering about how moores wins over Maxim and H Johnson don't count as "heavyweight" wins because the fights took place at 175....


Here you are giving Moore beef about losing to Charles three times at 175 but your counting these wins as heavyweight wins?

The highest Moore weighed for those Charles fights was 174! So those aren't heavyweight wins correct?

 

He also knocked out hall of fame heavyweight duration champion Jimmy Bivins in 1946

 

Question for dubblechin

If Moore got to fight Carnera, Sharkey, Baer instead of Patterson Marciano Ali.

What would moores record have been?

 

Gains did also beat Godfrey.

 

Archie can't beat Schmelling at Max's best, Jeffries could be too strong , and Baer hits too hard for Archie

 

I can't see it myself.I'd pick JJW to stop Moore

 

On a foul.

How much do we credit that?

Gains was also stopped by Godfrey.

 

This thread inspired me to draw up my own top 25 for the 1900 to 1955 (Jeff to Marciano) era just to see where Moore fits in for me.

1---Joe Louis
2---Rocky Marciano
3---Jack Johnson
4---Jim Jeffries
5---Harry Wills
6---Ezzard Charles
7---Sam Langford
8---Max Schmeling
9---Jersey Joe Walcott
10--Gene Tunney
11--Jack Dempsey
12--Max Baer
13--Elmer Ray
14--Jack Sharkey
15--Archie Moore
16--Billy Conn
17--Harold Johnson
18--Jimmy Bivins
19--Joe Jeannette
20--Sam McVea
21--Rex Layne
22--Primo Carnera
23--Bob Pastor
24--Tommy Loughran
25--George Godfrey

based on beating top men, longevity, and consistency (or not losing to 2nd raters, at least near prime)

Carnera & Godfrey--for this exercise, I am assuming their major fights were on the level.

Wills over Dempsey--check which one beat more guys in my top twenty-five.

Larry Gains--I really came close to putting him at #25, but too many bad losses.

Jess Willard--he is all but a one fight candidate, and that one fight was a bizarre finish fight over an out-of-shape 37 year old, although still a formidable opponent. I could see slipping Willard into the top 25 on just this one effort, though.

Harry Greb--most of his wins over bigger men were over men who were actually in the light-heavy class at the time--Tunney, Gibbons, Loughran. He beat some actual heavies, but I don't think enough to break into a top 25 in that weight class. He rates very highly in both the middle and light-heavy divisions.

 

He would have beaten Carnera badly prime, Sharkey and Baer could go either way,imo.