Is Bernard Hopkins an ATG?

I don't see how he's not an ATG Sues, if he isn't, then a lot of people aren't. I loved how Orisha ranks Trinidad and Hoya as top 100's, but not Hopkins.:rofl

I don't rank either of them as top 75's, and rank Tito over Hoya at that.

But here is the difference - Hopkins is cemented within my top 35, as is the great Roy Jones Jr.

 

Come on Jack....come on.

No, it was a great post, just like the last time you left one of your Anti-Hopkins rants....and I blew it up...and many people left "great post sues" and things of the like after it there.

Nothing like exaggerating to extremes to attempt to make your point valid huh?

:huh

Your comparing a fighter who began pretty much at minimum weight going to HW, to a WW going to MW? No Jack, you are a ****ing moron (and as I said, your normally a good, sound poster...just not when Bernard's name is mentioned).

Did I ever say that?

I said Leonard was still an elite fighter, even tho he was NEVER a good MW. Same with Hearns. Same with Duran. Their records and accomplishments at that weight were bad to borderline decent. They were WWs who moved up to MW and got beat (arguably in SRL's case)...and are now the three biggest names on Hagler's career.

The paralells to Hopkins resume in this case are PERFECT (and OMG that gives me a great idea for a post!!!! :yep )!

Again, within reason (I thought that was OBVIOUS, but I guess not...is that better??? :verysad ), elite fighters are elite fighters.

Was Duran 176lbs? no Was Leonard elite at 160? No. Was Hearns? No.

Are they still elite wins for Hagler's resume? YES! Same with the above three for Bernard's.

So they are great performances....and they were against elite fighters....how are they not great performances against elite fighters in your eyes? Because they were moving up in weight?

So you must not consider Hagler an ATG either. Its the same situation.

Just did. :good

Ok, now your just lying. Go watch the fight again if you really feel that way. Winky got hit cleaner, harder and more often then he had in YEARS! That isnt my opinion, its what happened.

No Im saying you werent displaying the performance in the correct light. Not giving credit for what was truely great about it....just saying it was a great performance, then going on to say why it wasnt great...

:huh

Again, look at the records. It was his best and most successful weight. I didnt just MAKE those stats up bro. He just got older and couldnt make MW any more.

Who said he was? He was a very good fighter...who got shutout and schooled badly by Hopkins. Noone fights ONLY elites, but most people seem to think Hopkins fought Tito, Oscar, Winky and 50+ scrubs. Holmes, Echols, Vanderpool, Eastman, Joppy, etc. were all very good fighters and very good wins.

Again, go look at ANY ATG and tell me all they fought was elite fighters.

No he was not a top fighter at 160. You are letting boxrec sway your view. He was decent at best at that weight. He was an ELITE LW...not MW.

Again, you just being selective of what you want to take as fact.

Nope just showing how wrong the ones you made truely are.

But why should those fighters get credit for a Johnson win (since both did beat him)....I mean, by your criteria, Johnson was a blown up MW.

:hey

Hearns record at MW was also not that good. So what if he went onto CW, he wasnt good there either. So Tito is fighting at LHW (and fighting a better fighter than Hearns EVER fought at CW), but that doesnt matter?

Again...selective about your facts.

Well good, you should apply that thinking here.

So we are speculating now? Well, Holyfield had a few fights at LHW...and looked unbeatable, until he moved up and did what he did at CW and HW. Do we consider him a top 5 LHW? NO, because he didnt do ENOUGH at that weight to warrent such.

The Duran thing goes deeper than that and you know it (as I said, when its NOT a Hopkins post, I agree with you more than not....:good ). That is another post for another time.

Actually, you CANT say Taylor is the 2nd best name of Hopkins resume....and if we are going by the elite at MW criteria, I could make a nice lil arguement for The Worm being one of Hagler's biggest wins (he DID beat him in the rematch).

Monroe was actually one hell of a fighter. Not at all like Mitchell. He is a very good name on Hagler's resume. But I dont think you will find one person that would pick him to beat Taylor.

Selective reading. Its the people attempting to degrade what Hopkins has done that use it.

Go and read 100 times it's been used, I bet it's around 95-5 in favor of hating on Bernard as opposed to his fans using it.

And I for one would never use it....it's Hopkins longevity at the top, at such an advanced age that is his greatest accomplishment in my eyes.

Never said ya did actually. My point lays more on the fact that Hopkins resume is FAR better than Joe's...yet you have no qualms on laying praise upon him....when you know (and I KNOW you know) the real reason they havent fought yet (weightclass, location, etc.).

No offense taken bro. As I said, when the post ISNT about Bernard, I think you are a great poster...I find myself agreeing with you MOST of the time. Its all in fun bro....no maliciousness meant.

:thumbsup

 

:good

 

I know about the straw man's arguement...

But no this isnt about Calzaghe. Jack is a good, smart poster, he just has this insane hate for anything with bad teeth I think.



(BTW, use the quote bubble thing above the post window to wrap quotes around your post...its easier :thumbsup )

 

:good

You got it!!

 

Youll get it...

 

sues2nd you have more patience than a monk on this matter. Great posts!

 

Your whole post went from respectable to shitty with that sentence.

Fvck tarver!

 

Great Posts sues2nd. One of the better posters on this site. Very concise and articulate!

 

Tarver is a borderline HOFer.

Let's not act like Canastota has the highest standards for induction.

With the HOF always having 4 inductees each year, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Arturo Gatti or Vitali Klitschko get in there.

 

:good

Thanks again guys...

 

Yes. He's Top 5 at middleweight, having dominated his era. The fact that his era didn't produce that many quality middleweights isn't his problem. He still dispatched 20 challengers, and did so, for the most part, with ease.

When you factor in his victories over Tarver and Wright at a higher weight, he's easily a Top ATG p4p, and could easily go higher on the list, depending upon what he accomplishes in the future.

 

Of couse hopkins is an ATG. Next question

 

I don't rate active fighters, but, at the moment, he's pretty much assured of at least the Top 40 when he retires, and I might put him as high as Top 25-30, depending upon what he does from this point on.