Is Bernard Hopkins the greatest Middleweight of all time?

Of course NOT!!

 

Top 10, maybe. I just don't see him trumping the ATG's

 

Robbi u always like to complicate things. I like to keep them simple

Hopkins never fought in a superfight before he faced Trinidad either. Tito & Jones are two different fighters with different styles N strengths. bernard could cope with Tito, but not with the speed of Jones

we've all seen this story before: the faster man usually speeds his way to a lopsided win becuz the opposition is consisently beat to the punch (Norris v Leonard,,Camacho vs Davis)

This was NOT the problem posed by Trinidad

In fact, how could anyone NOT see Hop would overpower, outmuscle, and rough him up? Tito is a skinny welterweight without the luxury of the speed or mobility of a Norris or Jones.

Oscar beat him but u people ignored that and didnt look at the physical dimentions of B Hop vs Tito. fact is, I thought Hop would stop him sooner, like in rd 8 somewhere

Roy is roughly the equal of B Hop in size but far superior in speed N effective hitting so he outclassed him & there is nothing more to it

Both turned pro the same year & competed the same time and fighting at the same level. Doesnt that put Roy at the same level competively?

Jones is more

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gifted & more advanced/developed level within the same time frame, which accounts for the lopsided contest, and we are talking the weight drained version along with the busted mitt

I have been telling u this all along: Hopkins while a good fighter in his own right is clearly inferior to the Haglers, Robinsons, Jones and will come out a loser every time

 

I agree with much of this, but think Hagler and Robinson would have much the struggle with Jones that Hopkins had. I give Robinson the best chance, but he struggled with LaMotta when giving up 15 lbs, what would it be like to give up 20-25 lbs against Jones?

Given that Jones was such a phenom in his his prime, I actually give Hopkins credit for his perfomance in this fight. He did much better than Toney and Reggie Johnson for example.

 

Hagler has one thing in his favor that both Hopkins & Robinson didnt have: the ability to get his man in deep trouble on a dime when needed. Most people dont even realize it but Hagler when hard pressed is even more dangerous when the opposition steps up

See the evidence for yourself: his fight with Colbert in which he was behind and in danger of losing the fight, took Mike out of action, broke his jaw & retired him, in the 12th

The Lee fight where Lee took the fight to Marvin, Marvin went from backing up to putting Lee on queeer street, all in the span of 5-10 seconds. The fight lasted 61 sec

again in the Scypion fight. Once WIlford closed the distance in the 4th, in the next few seconds, Marv put Wilford down for the 10 count.

most people here at ESB dont notice those things but I put more into my observations than most

the rematch with Hamsho, rd 3 when Hamsho flagrantly butted Hagler, trying to induce a cut, Hagler immediately drove him to the floor & ended the fight right after the butt. Like Scypion, Hamsho had never been knocked off his feet

the Hearns fight when fight was stopped to call in the Doctor, it took Hagler only seconds to end the fight. Hagler can do those things. Hopkins cant. Hopkins cant end a fight if he's in trouble. I been saying for years Hopkins doesnt have the tools or the intensity that Hagler did. You can just see it

In fact, his attack on Jones looked ordinary, even feeble.The only thing I noticed was Bernard's ability to take shots

if only he had a punch

 

Those fighters that you mention are a long way from Jones (even Hearns). And let's not forget that the best counter punching boxers Hagler met troubled him. Two beat him.

I think Hopkins looked impressive for the most part against his opposition. Between Jones and Taylor only Mercado (he should have gotten the decision, though) and Alllen really troubled him. And in both cases he won the rematches in emphatic fashion. That's 12 years with no stone really left untouched in the MW division.

And he had Jones more on the ropes than almost any other opponent. Jones won 8-9 rds out of 12, but most of them were pretty close. "Outclassed" is just so plainly the wrong word here. Jones had that extra gear to put in when he needed to bag a close round. That was about it. No one hurt the other.

Guys like Toney, Johnson, Tate, Malinga etc didn't even touch Jones or were destroyed by him. Hopkins at least made him fight a bit for his money.

 

can Jones be reached? obviously. Del Valle reached him and Hagler most assuredly would reach him. Hagler can reach u in vulnerale places and not only hurt him (Jones) but ruin him which, is something that Hopkins can never do

Hopkins couldnt hurt Tommy. Tommy with his handspeed N power, would eat him alive

now look at the first fight with Griffin. With some aggression, Montel was able to make it competitive. then he tightened up, and went south. jones took over and tko'd him even tho the contest went to Giriffin which we all kno was bull****

The leonard fight: Hagler was gone by that time so why would u use the leonard fight to make a case?

 

* Jones beats Hopkins 10 out of 10 barring any freak circumstances such
as Jones breaking a leg :good

* Hagler's pre title competition is arguably stronger than Hopkins title
reign comp :good

 

Because that's BS and you know it.

The question is, would Jones do what Leonard and Monroe did? Yes, and then some. ****, Duran's counter punching made Hagler hesitate. Even Roldan and Mugabi had the better of Hagler in the early rounds. Jones would counter and potshot with far more speed and power than Monroe, Duran and Leonard, being stronger and bigger he wouldn't get bulled like Hearns, and he wouldn't fade down the stretch like Roldan and Mugabi.

Hagler not winning a round against Jones wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Jones was that good (and that much bigger).

It's not really fair, though, considering Jones was at least one classic weight class above Robinson, Hagler etc.

 

There's thirty guys at the weight who could give him life and death. His opposition is vvvvvvvery thinnnnnnn imo

 

#4 - #7

 

agree mcvey, but I would multiply that number by at least 3, man in certain era's alone you could find 30 nevermind the whole history of the sport.

 

ah, but how would you rate him if he was your grandad?

 

don't be silly lora,

i don't rate hopkins as high as some for the same reasons many others don't, a host of smaller men and much of his comp that weren't that great to begin with. Plus you know how I feel about ALL these BIG guys calling themselves whatever weight they fraudulently compete at.

for me he's a L-HW and that's a whole new ball game.

besides I'm by no means alone in this thinking either... he is a very good fighter of course he is, but lets not get carried away with it.

let's just call all the old MWs cum L-HWs, S-MWs you honestly think there aren't dozens that would kick his head in, in the whole 150 years of the sport?

 

Post like these highlight is why I rarely come here any more.