Is Bernard Hopkins the greatest Middleweight of all time?

We can do no greater service to our fellow posters.:good:hi:

 

Din't Griffin bull Jones around in their intial contest, winning the first five or six until he tightend up?

Griffin is roughly Hagler's height and had some success. I suspect Hagler with his power would eventually overpower Roy at some point

Did I not give examples demonstrating Hagler's emergency power which tripples when in distressed situations?

and tho Roy is probably better than any fighter faced by Hagler he still has a chin that's human enough. all it takes is a well aimed shot (Clancy always said to aim for his chest)

too much is made of this guy's counterpunching or that guy's. Hagler as seen in the Hearns fight, doesnt have to box when he can just as easily brawl. and nobody brawls as well as Hagler. it was a performance that wouldve done Aaron Pryor proud

as Sugar Ray Robinson said after the Hearns fight: "WOW!"

 

A big long reply and you never awnsered my question. I know who likes to complicate things.

 

And then Jones destroyed him in the rematch.

Everyone has an off day now or then. The fact that these five or six rds is what you have to point to that Jones wasn't invincible speaks volumes for how almost humanely possibly close to invincible he came during his prime years.

Fantastic performance by Hagler, but Hearns could be bulled at MW (hell even WW). Roldan and Barkley (and Kinchen at SMW) did it too with varying degrees of success. Jones, on the other hand, wasn't even bulled by Ruiz.

 

most people forgot abut the success that Griffin had taking the fight to Roy

Not much experience but a lot of hustle w/o the talent. Guys like him & Dave Tiberi could outpoint someone like Toney

Just wondering but how come so many here have their minds made up that Mike Spinks would DEF KO ROy Jones @ 175. They seem so sure that Mike has his number

 

Short answer: Hagler has the versatility & power to destroy the opposition as seen time and time and time again. He's a proven winner.

Hopkins, a good blue collar type, lacks those higher class skills, and is too low on power

 

Still not awnsered my question......not even on the right content in your awnser either.

 

I'll try again....

Who did Jones beat at middleweight apart from a green Hopkins? You trying to tell me Jones fought in a strong middleweight division and Hopkins in a weak one?

Hopkins had never fought in a superfight before he faced Trinidad. Not many people thought that Hopkins could beat Trinidad, considering the way he had demolished Vargas and Joppy. What you're saying above is fine with the benefit of hindsight.

 

Both fought in weak eras as far as middleweights are concerned.imo.

 

Nah, think it's more that the preceeding era (1987-1992) was astonishingly good. Quite possibly the best in MW history. Everything that's come after has just looked poor in comparison.

 

When your most noteworthy opponents are aging smaller men you are in a weak era.

60's ?

Tiger
Griffith
Torres
Giardello
Downes
Giambra
Rodriguez
Brennan
Harrington
Pender
Fullmer
Hank
Moyer
Fernandez
SRR
Archer
Benton
Papp


Take a look at the names around in the 40's.
I stand by my statement.

 

Vargas & Joppy? You're impressed by that? Vargas was nothing more than a physical specimen. He shouldve been a model or an extra but fighting was not his calling

while Joppy was an also ran, dime a dozen

I never needed any hindsight to call that fight either. It's not challenging for me the way it is for some others here at ESB. calling fights like that is easy for me which is why I called fights out in the open like I did with Norris.

I just know these things like that time u asked me when the photo of Duran u showed me was taken, and I answered it correctly. Remember?

It's obvious, Hopkins is bigger, probably stronger. The fight went as I expected, only I expected Hopkins to be a little rougher

Hopkins is nowhere near the caliber of a young Hagler but he would be a good test for an older Robinson. I would even give him a good shot at beating Lamotta

 

So Monzon (Griffith, Napoles) and Hagler (Duran, Leonard) were in weak eras too, then? With the difference in Hagler's case that those aging smaller fighters actually troubled him. And just like Hopkins, his biggest win is over someone who peaked at lower weights.

And Hopkins were actually a good bit older than the "aging" fighters he met. Can't recall a significant fight he's had when age has been on his side.

 

Again I can't for the life of me understand the knocks Hopkins gets for his MW reign. Between facing the 180 lbs phenom that was RJJ and Taylor as a 40-year old he didn't lose once and only had real trouble with Mercado (fought at punishing altitude) and Allen. In both cases he set the record emphatically straight afterwards.

Forget about this ****ing "weak era" BS. You don't do that if you're not one hell of a fighter. And even most great fighters run into someone who has their number, at least on a particular night (Louis-Schmeling/Conn, Ali-Norton/Jones, Tyson-Douglas etc).

To so thorougly dominate a division for more than a decade is a special achievement at any time in history. No need to complicate it beyond that.

 

No.........................