Is Calzaghe really the greatest SMW?

atsch Denmark and Germany

 

for the 2 worst fighters, he did leave yes.

 

no relevance at all, typical.
you done enough waffle already, this thread has descended into yet another one people ignore to dodge **** bailey monolgues.

 

no, he DID not want them. not 'may'. Have some respect for your own heros words rather than **** on him by trying to rewrite them.

no one doubts that this is your opinion, so what insecurity makes you keep writing it?

since what he said occurred AFTER Collins dropped out, it made not a blind bit of difference to Collins decision not to fight Joe - that's another zero relevance question from you, Bailey.
Eubank may as well have said 'cor blimey mate is bailey still cut and pasting those **** failed posts'.

 

Because Jones was clearly not the fighter he had been in the 1990's. Calzaghe certainly wasn't in his prime but Jones was much further removed from his. Calzaghe/Jones in 2008 can in no way reflect either man's natural talent or their abilities in their prime, and the fact remains that Jones's dominant win over Toney is the single most impressive stand alone victory in the history of the division, Calzaghe did nothing to match that and the only fighter he beat so dominantly as to compare to that was, the hyped but obviously limited and clearly second rate in hindsight, Jeff Lacy.

I forget nothing.

Abraham has never been that good at Super Middleweight and the only victories of note in the division on his resume is Steiglitz. In comparison, Lacy has never been that good and the only victories of any note his resume as Ried, Vanderpool and Sheika - all three long removed from their prime and only one a former world champion. Abraham's status is boosted a bit by his reign as Middleweight Champion - which adds some gravitas to his name.

Kessler wasn't in his prime anymore, but neither was Eubank. Both were suffering from lingering injuries and when matched up against little known fighters stepping up tp world level for the first time were beaten.

Bika is no better or worse than he's always been. He's given several world champions difficult fights and always been an awkward opponent. Bute handled him easier than either Calzaghe or Ward.

Froch, while not a young man, was in his best period as a fighter, he beat Pascal, Dirrell and Taylor, lost a close decision to Kessler, beat Abraham and Johnson, lost to Ward, beat Bute. Kessler, coming into his fight with Calzaghe, was in his best period as a fighter, he'd beaten Siaca, Mundine, Lucas, Beyer and Andrade. Kessler run of opponents in the run up to his first defeat is clearly weaker than Froch's run of opponents. Kessler and Froch are evenly matched as fighter and it would be a toss up who would win at any point in either mans career. Kessler as a win for Calzaghe rates higher than Froch for Ward because Kessler was undefeated and holding two world belts, but as they are evenly matched I see the two names at a similar level when comparing ability and how beating ones of them adds to a fighters legacy.

I do not appreciate the cut and paste job.

 

yeah bailey i forgot the great will mcintyre the only world title shot he ever got a soild defence that , who of note had will beat :think and banging on about joes win over bika what was bikas pedigree at the weight:think and be , remind me again how many times bika had fought at supermiddle again before he was handed his world title shot ,
your like a broken record im sure you have all your post copied pasted and stored on some file some where again
also crediting joe with the win over roy ffs , best thing is you believe it :rofl

 

Calzaghe is very underrated by many on here,but i'm not sure he beats a prime time Roy Jones.

 

Looks like Herol has pulled the biggest duck ever
Come back when you can answer

 

I will just focus on your Froch section here

Reid, Magee, Pascal, Taylor (away), Dirrell, Abraham (away), Johnson (away), Bute, Kessler, Groves.

Now Reid was very faded and already beaten by Calzaghe when prime
Magee lost to faded Reid who Calzaghe beat
Pascal did what at SMW? Also lost to Hopkins who Calzaghe beat
Taylor was on a run of 1-2 when he fought Froch and has no pedigree at SMW
Dirrell did what at SMW
Abraham was coming off a loss and has no big SMW wins. In fact what do you think Taylors big win was at that time? Abraham was away also which is like when Calzaghe fought a sub in Denmark
Johnson has no SMW pedigree and was boiled down and faded yet lost to Sheika when prime who Calzaghe beat
Bute was a good win
Kessler was a faded fighter who had already lost to Calzaghe.
Groves a fighter I really like and bet on to beat Froch, but what has Groves done at SMW? Who has he beat? His resume is arguable to Staries when Calzaghe beat him.

Now

Froch best win is faded Kessler who is not as good a win as Calzaghes over Eubank

Frochs next best win is Bute which is not as good as Calzaghe win over prime Kessler

Then I will point to all Frochs other SMW wins and show Calzaghe beat better.

Magee not as good a win as prime Bika who Calzaghe beat

Abraham not as good a win as Mitchell who Calzaghe beat

Johnson not as good a win as Reid who Calzaghe beat

Dirrell not as good a win as Woodhall who Calzaghe beat

Groves not as good a win as Brewer who Calzaghe beat

Pascal not as good a SMW win as Veit who Calzaghe beat


This is not even mentioning undefeated SMW champ Lacy or several other top 10 wins Calzaghe had

 

Nope Ward is. He still has a chance to add to that legacy. Watch him beat GGG at that weight and the Calzaghe nuttards will say that GGG was only good at MW. Ah well. Ward is king all time.

 

pretending that the other guy is ducking you, when they've just pointed out your continuity error, kinda makes you doubly wrong -

1. wrong once for your original continuity error
2. wrong 2nd time for pretending you didn't make your now exposed error.

good luck with going for the treble.

 

Its hard to judge Johnson, he's not a typical fighter with a prime in tandem with his years. His prime was actually after Sheika beat him, when he beat Jones and Tarver. That's not to say that Sheika was above Jones and Tarver at the time as a result. When Johnson fought Froch he was coming off a good win in the Super 6 against Green who was a good contender at the time, only having just lost to the champion in Ward.

Again, I would say it is odd to judge only one win of Froch's against one win of Calzaghe's, as you can compare certain wins of one against wins of the other in a biased way to disparage the others.

I would argue you could look at the best win of each and fairly evaluate them and then apart from that you can measure the entire weight of their best ten wins to see who's is more, instead of choosing specific wins and picking more favourable specific wins to bring them down.

For example you say Pascal is not as good a win as Veit for some reason. But Pascal, I would argue is a better win then Sheika or Starie. It's easy to pick random comparisons like that. In fact I think the Pascal win was better then Veit, as Pascal worked his way to WBC top ranking for the vacant title and subsequently achieved far more then Veit in the sport, by winning the WBC light heavyweight title and defeating a top 5 pound for pound fighter in Dawson. That might be a grey area, as its hard to say Pascal is higher esteemed due to other weight accomplishments and then discard Calzaghe's run at light heavy too. But for certain Pascal is a higher esteemed boxer than Veit.


I could go through the list you discreditied of Froch's opponents and give my own favourable opinions of them, but I don't want to write an essay. I could also discount Calzaghe's wins just as bad as you did for Froch. Overall I would say its best to judge the best wins of their careers and then measure the weight of the top 10 wins, as a good yardstick.

One other thing - I think you place too much weight on the Eubank win. It was an undercard fight - which shows the magnitude of it at the time. Eubank took it at short notice - he really wouldn't have done that against Nigel Benn, Steve Collins or Michael Watson would he? He was also coming down from the wilderness. I think most would vote Froch/Kessler II over Calzaghe/Eubank?