Is Canelo all time top 10

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Wildcat, Sep 11, 2021 at 5:09 AM.

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  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    5.8%
  2. No

    98 vote(s)
    94.2%
  1. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    He was masterful against Liston. Never did I say that Ali's head movement was bad. I never even said that Canelo's head movement was better, that was something you came up with. I said their styles are too different to say one was better at head movement than the other. Both were great at head movement in their own way. But since you brought it up, if we're really going to split hairs here, Canelo's head movement is in fact more technical than Ali's was. Ali had lapses like when he got dropped by Cooper. That's not a knock on Ali so much as it is to say that Canelo is more consistent and disciplined as it relates to head movement. When Ali was on, like against Liston, he was on. No doubt about that.
     
  2. ShovelHook

    ShovelHook Boxing Addict Full Member

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    And that makes it better how? Having natural ability doesn't take away from the fact that those abilities are extraordinary. It's not like Canelo avoids all the shots coming at him, he gets hit like Ali too, way more than a prime Ali. He just happens to be fighting at lower weights where you don't have as high a likelihood of being put down by those shots.
     
  3. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's just different man. I never said you can't make the argument that Ali had better head movement. But at the same time, there's plenty of reasons why Canelo's is better. It's very debatable. Both Canelo and Ali are / were extraordinary defensive masters.
     
  4. Surrix

    Surrix Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course he isn't Ali from 60 ies, he is just is tickets seller.
    Developed into a cash cow by Oscar and Co when they had cherry picked for him old over the hill bigger name than he then was in Mosley.
    Business stuff. Mosley then was more well known than Canelo future big cash cow.

    He might had been down but best skills Clenelo does have is to cherry pick and fight in backyard where he is a cash cow.
    He had waited until GGG will be enough old and fought vs him in front of clenbuterol fangirls as a cash cow.
    This NOBODY had cherry picked shot Kovalev who after fight vs Yarde looked very bad.
    Not ppl like prime Beterbiev, Gvozdyk.

    Basically Canelo is brand for fangirls.
    In order to be top 10 ATG he should beat even Okolie not only 175 lbs division boxers.

    Cherry picking DIVA with fan girls as fanbase and cash cow.

    Ali from 60 ies was tickets seller but he at least fought everyone, did not forced opponents to fight with catchweight etc Canelo diva things.
     
  5. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Then surely you need to tale notes of the punches he got hit with?

    Which is what I was discussing

    Yet you neglect that and show clips of successful moments

    Typical

    Maybe you wasn't paying attention?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021 at 7:51 AM
  6. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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  7. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Never forgets would mean he is impossible to hit

    Which isn't true

    Stop being such a cuck
     
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  8. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Its like you witnessed Ali training in order to say this


    You obviously didnt
     
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  9. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Watch the video I linked in post #103, that video breaks everything down pretty well showing Canelo's training techniques vs Ali's. I don't have to have witnessed Ali training in his day to know that the training methods that Canelo works on in the gym to develop his head movement and evasion techniques did not exist back in Ali's day. Ali was a brilliant defensive fighter, who at times showcased masterful head movement usually when dancing on the outside, but he had lapses like against Cooper and he was not as disciplined as Canelo is. Ali's elusiveness was based on his footwork and his dancing and use of the jab. The head movement was not central to his style like Canelo's is. Both were great at head movement in their own way, in their own unique style, but there's a difference between the way Ali used head movement and the way Canelo does. It's been ingrained into Canelo through modern training techniques, whereas Ali didn't have the luxury of modern training techniques to develop the kind of skills we see in Canelo. This is not a knock on Ali, but we can't ignore how much more technical and developed Canelo's head movement and upper body movement is.
     
  10. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    But you claim he didnt work on such stuff, not even with the techniques available back then

    You cant actually know this

    You assume as usual
     
  11. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The training methods Canelo utilzes didn't exist back in Ali's day. To what extent Ali worked on head movement in the gym may not be fully known, but it wasn't as much of a focus area as it is for Canelo, it certainly wasn't at the level that Canelo dedicates to developing head movement and evasion moves due to modern training methods. These modern methods simply weren't available back in Ali's day, that's not an assumption, it's a fact.
     
  12. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Exactly, you dont actually know what he worked on

    Thanks
     
  13. shadow111

    shadow111 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Have you seen any training footage of Ali working on head movement?
     
  14. Wizbit1013

    Wizbit1013 The Original 101.3 Full Member

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    Can't say i have

    But because we haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't happen
     
  15. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Don't ever compare Canelo to Ali or Lomachenko again. Lima's done more in the pros despite Canelo having more than twice as many fights and winning titles in more weight classes.

    Canelo got a gift against Trout and GGG, and struggled against Saunders. Loma made fighters like Rigo, Walters, and Russell Jr. look like bums.
     
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