Up, down.. in and out.. now you see me, now you don't. Switching between defence and attack seamlessly and making them miss and then making them pay. This content is protected
These guys showcased good defense fundamentals and evasive head movement, but how many of them have really been at the level that Canelo has been at over the last couple years? Lomachenko got completely exposed and battered by Lopez. In terms of footwork alone, Lomachenko is top level, and he used head movement to make guys miss sometimes, but his ability to evade shots through head movement using was not at the level of Canelo. Chris Byrd is a good example, Middleweight James Toney is comparable to Canelo. Mayweather used extreme evasion techniques when he fought Canelo, but throughout his career that generally was not his area of expertise. He mastered the shoulder roll and worked off the jab, Mayweather never stood there giving guys upper body movement making them miss repeatedly like we saw Canelo do vs Jacobs. I would add Prince Naseem to the list as someone who utilized a mastery of head and upper body movement, but he was far more unconventional and less technically sound than Canelo, a lot of his manuevers came from his incredible athleticism and explosiveness from his legs. Prime Mike Tyson doesn't really fit what we're talking about because he never fought defensively. He used head movement and evaded shots but it was all done in an effort to get inside. That's not really what we're talking about when we talk about "head movement during defense". Mike Tyson in his prime was not a defensive-oriented fighter, he had incredibly fast reflexes and he could slip punches, but he didn't have the mindset to go into defense-showcase mode like we've seen from Canelo, he was too focused on coming forward and constantly setting up punches to be put into this category. Prime Ali (1960s) was an amazing defensive fighter, but he relied primarly on his footwork, his outboxing ability. He would occasionally use head movement or upper body movement to slip punches, but it was never at the level we've seen from Canelo. You could argue that Ali was more elusive than Canelo, but that was primarily due to his footwork, his dancing, the constant lateral motion and working off the jab. Not the kind of excessive upper body and head movement that we see from Canelo. So I'm not arguing that all of these fighters aren't some of the best defensive fighters of all-time, but if we're talking about head movement during defense, ability to make fighters miss from mostly standing positions (not using constant footwork) most of the fighters there don't fit that description. Great fighters, all elusive in their own way, but not in the way that Canelo is elusive, through instinctive and technically sound evasion moves through upper body and head movement. None of these guys really have the kind of highlights of making guys miss in this way that Canelo has.
This is a good sequence of Lomachenko doing what we're talking about here. But you can see there it's more herky jerky, it's less smooth, it's less instinctive, it's less fluid than when Canelo does this sort of thing, and right at the end of that gif Lomachenko is off balance and about to fall backwards. This type of movement from Lomachenko does not come natural to him. He's capable of pulling off these kind of moments, as seen in this gif, but it's not executed at the highest level as Canelo has repeatedly showcased. With Canelo, these sort of moments are second nature to him because of his training techniques. Watching this clip from Loma is like watching a poor man's version of Canelo trying to imitate Canelo. It's like Lomachenko is doing a parody of Canelo here, and almost pulling it off but not quite. So yes Lomachenko is capable of having these kind of moments, we've seen him do this occasionally, but he's not as proficient or as smooth in pulling off these defensive showcase moments as Canelo.
You could also say Canelo got "completely exposed and battered" by GGG but he was gifted a decision in the first fight. How the fanboyism is strong with you and it blinda you from the truth. GGG should have been given the nod first time. It was a robbery. Lomachenkos defense is better. And James Toneys defense is not comparable, it's better. "Mayweather never stood there giving guys upper body movement making them miss repeatedly like we saw Canelo do vs Jacobs." That doesn't matter, defense is defense. And Mayweather had better head movement. Mayweather overall also had better defense. "Prime Mike Tyson doesn't really fit what we're talking about because he never fought defensively. He used head movement and evaded shots but it was all done in an effort to get inside. That's not really what we're talking about when we talk about "head movement during defense". Mike Tyson in his prime was not a defensive-oriented fighter, he had incredibly fast reflexes and he could slip punches, but he didn't have the mindset to go into defense-showcase mode like we've seen from Canelo, he was too focused on coming forward and constantly setting up punches to be put into this category." Stop cherrypicking terms, defense is defense. Mike Tyson slipped and weaved shots to avoid getting hit. That is defense even when he's on the front foot. Even if it's implemented into counters or offense, the head movement itself is defense. Prime Ali had better head movement, this is getting ridiculous. Im not even referring to him dancing around the ring. Head movement whether it stems from the footwork or not is still head movement, and head movement is defense. Terrible logic, absolutely terrible
No. Canelo GGG 1 was a back and forth fight that was highly competitive, close and very evenly matched. Loma Lopez on the other hand was a one-sided domination. There's absolutely no comparison between the two. Canelo was not exposed or battered in any way vs GGG. Canelo did much better than expected vs GGG the first time and if anyone was exposed in that first fight, it was GGG. Loma was completely exposed and battered by Lopez. You're trying to equate a close fight that could have went either way to a complete Lopez domination.
I don't disagree with this, but you're talking about defense generally whereas the OP is talking about "head movement during defense". Tyson was not a defensive-oriented fighter. There's no way you can say Tyson is a better defensive fighter than Canelo or any of these defensive masters. Tyson was an offensive-oriented fighter who in his prime used his quick reflexes and incredible speed to evade shots as a means to set-up punches. But I agree with you that Tyson in his prime was incredibly hard to hit, but that doesn't make him a defensive head movement master. He had defensive skills no question, but he never showcased his defense enough to be in this conversation. When he slowed down later in his career, Tyson was easy to hit because he didn't have the kind of defensive fundamentals that we see in fighters like Canelo. Well there's nothing wrong with disagreeing on who we consider better defensively. If you think Prime Ali had better head movement that's your opinion, I just respectfully disagree and I'll explain why. Ali was naturally gifted, but Canelo worked harder in the gym than Ali did on evasion techniques, head movement upper body movement, etc. Ali didn't need to focus on that aspect of his defense because he had a long reach, great footwork which kept his opponents at a distance. Ali was never an inside fighter like Canelo. Ali stayed on the outside, Canelo thrives on the inside which is what we're talking about when we talk about head movement. Canelo has the ability to stand in the pocket, slip punches instinctively, this is a skillset Ali never had. Ali did the occasional head movement upper body movement, but he was mainly a head hunting jabber who danced all night. Canelo is a completely different fighter with a completely different skillset.
Narrowing the definition again are we ? The topic is head movement during defense not head movement while fighting purely defensively am i right ? Head movement is defense. Showcasing head movement as defense and fighting purely defensively are 2 different things. Mike Tyson was an offensive fighter but incorporated defensive head movement so he didn't get hit while pressuring or countering is opponents. Thats why he always said his "defense is impregnable" So yes his head movement "during defense" was easily better than Canelo Alvarez's. Because head movement whether it be used to evade punches while moving forwards or to set up a counter or just to evade shots on the backfoot is still a form of defense. Mike Tyson has excellent defense during his prime and monster offense as well. This is your argument ? Ali was naturally gifted while Canelo had to work harder so Canelo has better defense ? Are you serious right now ? This content is protected WHAT DO YOU MEAN ALI DID OCCASIONAL HEAD AND UPPER BODY MOVEMENT!!!!!! he moved his head and upper body all the time in his prime thats literally one of the things he was known for Im loosing my sanity by the minute
Look guys the poll was held 97% voted for GGG over Ginger but Shadow says theyre wrong & Canelo is the super being ROFL Who do you really thing knows best 97% of boxing fans or Shadow ?? If you ignore him he'll stop the silly posts
I'm not overrated Qawi, nor trashing Canelo. I'm simply using Qawi to point out that Canelo's sequence vs Jacobs was good, not one of the best ever.
One made Evander Holyfield miss a full combination, the other is Canelo. Qawi was better, and so was this sequence.
