Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Joeywill, May 9, 2022.
It certainly matters. It would be like Loma going up to 140 and losing to Jose Ramirez
And if Loma lost, he still lost. You don't get extra points or an asterixis because you held belts in the division below. This is why P4P lists never make much sense. People invent their own criteria too often
Nah. clearing out Super Middle in it's weakest era for some time doesn't make you number 1.
Usyk was and still is number 1.
Loma is routinely giving away 7-12lbs and 3 to 5.5'' in reach up at 135 and the likes of Commey who comes in at 153-154, and surely the giant Nakatani too, he's giving away like 15lbs. That's three divisions heavier. And a natural leprechaun division fighter giving away 7-12lbs is different to giving it away at the heavier weights let alone 15lbs and he was often giving away weight, reach or both or a significant amount of both even down at 126 and 130
Commey's trainer before the Loma fight
“Richard is going to be an incredibly large Lightweight, and he is going to impose his will and do what he does best on the day''
Clen: "I will weigh 178-180''
Bivol weighed 183
And Clen who is built like a tank was giving away 2'' in reach to Bivol
But David vs Goliath doe
I mean realistically speaking, the majority of boxing fans felt Golovkin beat Canelo twice.
So does squeaking by Jacobs, knocking out Kovalev and unifying SMW give him enough plaudits to ignore the Bivol defeat?
Had a different set of judges given Golovkin the victory would he even have been P4P number 1 in the first place?
Canelo has undoubtedly chased greatness, but his P4P ranking has always been a tenuous one due to the amount of close fights he's had.
Usyk is a clear choice for me.
Mikey Garcia was still wbc champ after moving up two weight classes and losing to Errol Spence. He wasn't p4p1, but he dropped out of the top 10 after that loss.
Was a while ago, so correct me if I'm wrong.
GGG beat him at least once.
Bivol smokes him at SMW
It happened last Saturday night
We witnessed a helluva fight
When Bivol beat Saul
In a one-sided brawl
And the judges, at last got it right.
Canelo’d been beaten before
Three times, and perhaps even more
But the judges were bent
And the young ginger gent
Was gifted a dis-honest score.
But all of that’s now in the past
Mid fight, the young Mexican gassed
His corner was worried
The more Bivol flurried
And fight fans got justice at last.
To the future, we now cast our eye
The rematch in the sweet bye and bye
At a bit lighter weight
Around one sixty eight
For redemption, Canelo will try
This will settle things once and for all
And We’ll get a true measure of Saul
If Canelo still fails
and the Russian prevails,
The ginger man’s ranking will fall.
If Bivol's next two fights are Canelo at 168 and Beterbiev at 175, and if he wins both, I'd put him over Usyk at # 1.
I'm talking about on the official record.
In the official books, he has not.
You are just giving your opinion...we have no proof of what going down in weight will do to Bivol, his punch resistance & stamina.
You're just giving your opinion that he beats everyone 168 and below.
Giving opinions is kinda how these forums work.
To add to this. The ''but the size advantage doe'' and ''he dared to be great'' crowd were as silent as church mice about the far greater size disadvantages Loma is routinely having to contend with and try to overcome up 135 and they sure were very forgiving when he ''dared to be great'' like few others by taking on reigning world champion Salido in just his second pro fight who not only missed weight by over 2lbs but rehydrated 19lbs, had an 11 pound weight advantage over him, that's two divisions for those of you who suck at math, and who fouled the absolute crap out of him all night.
Going into that fight these were Salidio's only four losses in like 13 years or something
A 42-2-1 JMM who was coming off a draw with a prime Manny
A 30-0-0 Mikey Garcia
An 18-0 Gamboa
And a 30-11-1 Cristobal Cruz - don't be fooled by the record he was a good fighter and Salido avenged that loss by wide scores a few fights later.
And JMM, Garcia, and Gamboa were either all roughly the same weight as Saildo or heavier than him and Cruz was probably roughly the same as him too and they had all been past 8 rounds or the full route numerous to many many times, whereas, in complete contrast to all of them Loma was outweighed by 11lbs, was only 1-0 as a pro,. and had never been past five rounds before in his life and his nuts, hips, thighs and knees were being bombarded with bazookas all night
Funny how all those shots that Bivol blocked on his arms and gloves aren't counted as legal scoring blows but the 50-60 illegal low blows, a sizable percentage of which so ridiculously flagrantly low that Ray Charles could've seen them from a mile away on a dark night, were scored as legal shots for Salido by these same clowns. And the thing is you have to count them because if you don't there's no way you can possibly score the fight for Salido given how over a third of his total punch connects were South of the border ie. illegal and Loma actually outlanded him 164 to 142
Also funny how we heard endless whining about Loma's size advantage over Rigo, who FTR called him out not the other way round and in addition to that he was hounded on social media for months by Rigo's army of fangils who accused Loma of running scared and ducking him and were utterly convinced Rigo was going to destroy him. But when Loma is giving away even bigger physical disadvantages or roughly the same, which he has been many times, not a single peep about size disadvantage doe.
In fact, they absolutely crucified Loma for ''daring to be great'' and losing close fights to way naturally bigger/way heavier opponents, one of whom who cheated like crazy and wouldn't have won if the corrupt as hell ref had only deducted one point for the 50-60 low blows. Just one solitary point and Salido categorically deserved to be DQ'd let alone had more deducted than that.
Imagine the outrage if Bivol had come in over 2lbs above the limit, rehydrated 19lbs, outweighed Clen by over two divisions, and had fouled the crap out of him all night, where over a third of his total punch connects were illegal low blows? But we all know what would've happened if Bivol did even a fraction of that. He would've 100% been DQ'd or had incurred multiple point deductions and if he wasn't he never would've got the decision in a million years and everyone knows that too.
Let’s remember that boo boo was champ at 154 and Canelo was the mandatory and he didn’t g ok after that title he waited until boo boo got stripped them he boxed for it. Canelo wanted to be undisputed at 160, boo boo had gone up to 160 captured the wbo title there and Canelo still failed to box him to become unified. If he goes up 168 and makes noise there Canelo will make excuses again. 2 different weight classes now he has to go up a 3rd come on it’s logic!