Is Carlos Ortiz greater than Julio Cesar Chavez?

I really have a hard time with this 'greater' business, I mean it DOESN'T mean H2H, but it ALWAYS eventually gets spoken as though it does.

Sure some Champions can have a 'greater' run at the Top, so on paper they are seen as Greater than others who maybe only had a couple of defences at the Top, so that equates, technically as greater... which of course can be clearly inaccurate.

i.e Fury, 'IF' he pulls off even 1 Big win, some people will 'ejaculate' him automatically into being listed among Greatest Heavyweight lists... wrong, Wrong, WRONG.

Fury IS a 2cd Rate Fighter and Champion at best.

Fred Apostoli never held the Lineal Title, though reported to be NBA Middleweight Champion briefly, Apostoli, will rarely if ever make a TOP Greatest Middleweight lists, certainly not as high as Fury could eventually make here, based on all this Achievement Based crap...

again, wrong, Wrong, WRONG, Fury can only dream of being as good as the Apostoli's of Boxing.
so this kind of business, is completely inaccurate & misleading, or more to the point unrepresentative.

Ortiz & Chavez are both GREATS with little between them, but in the case of Champions and/or Contenders compared to Chumpions, as demonstrated above, it doesn't do Boxing ANY Historical good, and in fact, it is Insulting to Truly Greater Fighters.

 

Chavez' wins/opposition were less than Ortiz'? If I read that correctly I don't agree...

Ortiz was a top fighter but I don't rank him over Chavez.

 

Yes I agree. All the fighters Ortiz lost to Chavez would have beaten for sure. Kenny Lane was no Chavez and he was able to beat Ortiz.

 

I remember a video hosted by Curt Gowdy and Jose Torres was asked to rank the greatest lightweight of all-time. He picked Ortiz. Of course he was going to put his countryman first. This was over the likes of Ike Williams and Roberto Duran. Crazy.

 

It's also become fashionable these days to rank Sanchez over Chavez, another point I don't get.

 

Ortiz was a greater lightweight than Chavez and has the more impressive title reign of the two fighters there and probably the best title reign of the two at any of the weights they competed at.

Was Ortiz a better lightweight than Chavez? That’s more debatable. Chavez looked amazing against Rosario and Ramirez but left the division too soon to make a real legacy there. But he would have given Ortiz all he could handle at the weight.

Chavez was a greater junior welterweight than Ortiz without a doubt but his reign at 140 wasn’t as impressive as Ortiz’s at 135. And was Chavez actually a better light welterweight than Ortiz? That’s also debatable.

But Chavez was also a great junior lightweight, so I think the sum total of his dominance and consistency across three weight divisions shades it overall.

 

Excellent post Jel, exactly how I see it.