Is Chris Eubank the lowest ranked divisional ATG ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jul 21, 2020.


  1. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Eubank definitely has an argument if Benn does. Because Eubank is ahead in their series AND beat more SMW champions. Benn got a gift against Mallinga who was a future champion and Eubank edged Malinga. Eubank beat ex IBF champion who never lost the title in the ring. And he beat another ex IBF champ on top of that.

    Also I think you're overrating McClellan a bit here. If Malinga is able to outbox Nigel Benn and Benn is able to win 8 out of 10 rounds it exposes McClellan as a big punching frontrunner with no stamina and little in the way of a defence in my book. The public might prefer to watch a Benn and McClellan war but a Eubank-Rochiagani is boxing at a higher technical level.
     
  2. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm on about at that specific time when Benn beat GMan, and the fight before most thought he beat Eubank as well.

    At that specific moment in time, when the demand for Benn vs Jones was at it's highest, you could argue either of those two as number 1, in the hope it would get resolved in the ring.

    Eubank never really reached those kind of heights.

    The closest you'd get is when he first moved up, but all he did then was beat a former MW he'd already beaten, hence why he never attained a high ranking.

    Anyways, answer the original question, can you think of any other fighter in history, who is considered a divisional great despite never being ring ranked in the top 2 of the division?
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    What a great film.
     
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  5. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Perhaps, I agree he said he didn't want to be in that type of fight again. Although in the past IIRC he said he'd kill Steve Collins if needed to in order to keep his belt. The thing is if there was crazy money

    Also fighting Roy Jones is very different to fighting Nunn or Toney. You're not going to die fighting a technical bout with Nunn and Toney.
     
  6. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But nobody expected Watson to fight like he never had before against Eubank the second time. Toney said he 'hated' Eubank, and could really turn it on and walk down opponents or throw clusters of combinations.
     
  7. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    I'd argue that the Rochiagani fight could put him in at number 1. Yes Benn-McClellan had helped build up a Jones fight in America and Britain but Rochiagani at least on that level. You're confusing marketing with levels.

    You're still ignoring 2 men who beat Benn were ranked below Barkley.

    And I answered it in my first post. Lamotta, sure the ring might have ranked him number 1 or whatever, the Villemain and Robinson fights prove he wasn't. And there's other gift decisions the MOB bought him.

    Maxim was never top 2 at LHW head to head.

    The likes of Holman Williams, Lloyd Marshall, Cocoa Kid never ranked top 2 unless I remember wrongly. Was Jimmy Bivins ever ranked top 2?

    Bernie Briscoe, Roben Carter and George Benton didn't make top 2. Tony Ayala Jr didn't make top 2

    Herol Graham never made top 2

    Steve Collins and Reggie Johnson didn't make top 2

    Del Valle never got top 2 despite being robbed against Virgil Hill

    Ike Quartey never got top 2 despite deserving the decisions against DLH imo - This is the nearest parallel example of 3 belt holders not facing each other and Quartey was clearly at least on par with his contemparies.

    Scott Harrison, Gainer and Freddie Norwood never made top 2 at FW

    Champions like Brewer, Mitchell, Robin Reid and Beyer never got top 2

    And I actually made a mistake in looking at the top 2, when there was also a champion - so I reckon there's a good few I missed. Like Povetkin at HW, he was always behind the brothers
     
  8. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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  9. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Also @lufcrazy Junior Witter was never top 2 and we all know he beats Ricky Hatton, even Ricky knew ;)
     
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  10. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think you're confusing me with the Ring Mag here. I don't dictate their rankings, I read their rankings and bow down to their superior knowledge.

    Out of this you've listed though

    So LaMotta did crack the top 2, hence doesn't count.

    Maxim is not a top ten LHW.

    Williams and Kid both were top 2, one at MW the other at WW. But you'd be hard pressed to see a top ten WW list featuring Kid.

    Briscoe, Carter, Bent lon and Ayala Jr are considered top ten in any division.

    Graham isn't considered top ten.

    I'm gonna stop there a second, do you actually understand what I'm asking here?

    I'll repeat my query that lead to this thread.

    Has any consensus top ten divisional ATG, other than Eubank ever failed to crack the ring top 2 in said division.
     
  11. Bulldog24

    Bulldog24 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Their superior knowledge? They're writers and journos!
     
  12. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Surely you jest? And if you don't:

    They reported Lamotta's Yarosz and Villemain bouts were robberies and they reported Robinson beat him. So while he ranked top 2 and won the championship by fouling. Lamotta was never Top 3 in the world. He might have been top 2 due to robberies, but if you believe The Ring so clearly, you know he wasn't genuinely top 2 in the world. Villemain also beat him when he was champion.

    Also if a fighter ranks top 2 but has a champion in front of them, they are technically ranked 3rd, the same as Eubank. And I'm pretty sure neither Holman or Cocoa Kid ranked 1st.

    Also all that aside the MW-SMW division of the 90s is the best division in history
     
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  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Of course I don't jest. I don't have the time, patience nor knowledge to compile weekly rankings for every single division.

    Again I'm not talking H2H, LaMotta was a champ. He was ranked number 1, he's void from the discussion.

    Of course there's a champ, in which case the top two is he and his next contender.

    Both Williams and Cocoa Kid were ranked the top contender for a short window during their career.

    It's a simple question and one I haven't been able to answer yet. Has any divisional great failed to crack the top 2 in their own division.

    Eubank is the only man I can think of.

    Hence the thread.
     
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    And what are we? Arm chair fans and keyboard warriors.