Is Cotto an ATG?

Yes, no doubt.

 

he is good I just think he benefited from older guys and sort of a weak era, so the top guys are not as tops as say the past like Hearns or Leonard or Hagler, who would have destroyed Cotto in any weight. Cotto has benefitted from a weak era.

 

He has the potential to become an ATG with adequate 160 defences.

A win over GGG would grant him ATGhood. A win over a Canelo that gets through Lara would be a big deal too.

 

How the fucck is he an ATG? Do you guys even know what an ATG is?

I think Cotto lost to Clottey for starters (but it's been a while since I saw that fight).
It was a NC against Margarito 1, not a win for Marg.

He's a HOF'er, the lowest level of HOF.

 

Positives:
- Monster at 140lbs, looked dominant there, making easy work of legit contenders with different styles
- Makes easy work of prime Zab Judah
- Beats a 2007 version of Mosley - still a 'good' fighter
- The 'loss' to Margarito should be a NC because of hand wraps, Cotto avenged the loss anyway
- Great execution by Cotto and he looked tremendous, he beat a past prime Sergio Martinez, not THE Sergio Martinez.


Neutral:
- There's nothing wrong in him losing to Manny Pacquiao and Mayweather, they're both Top 40 ATG's. Doesn't really say much.


Negatives:
- He had a 7-5 fight with prime Paulie which was VERY competitive, and Paulie was disadvantaged in that he was cut early. Then again, prime Paulie is definitely better than someone like Broner.
- Lost to Austin Trout - Cotto looked really flat in that fight, definitely not a good look for his resume
- He beat a past prime Sergio Martinez, not THE Sergio Martinez.
- From what I remember, I think he lost to Joshua Clottey



In my opinion, he therefore is the lowest possible level of HOF, but still, a HOF.

 

I would say he's a bit more than the lowest level of HOF. He's got one the best resumes in the sport. Mosley, Martinez, Margarito, Judah, Clottey, Foreman, Quintana, Malignaggi. Four division champ.

Only bad loss is to Trout. Gave Mayweather a very respectable fight.

His best wins (Mosley and Martinez) were both against greats past their primes. He needs those 1, 2 or 3 wins over prime elite fighters to be an ATG. A middleweight win over Golovkin would be extraordinary. Doubt he could do it though.

 

Probably top 75-80. good not great

 

The fighters you've listed are either past prime or not even that good. Be honest about it, we're talking about HOF's and ATG's here.

Mosley - 2007 version of Mosley, NOT prime, 1998 Mosley. People forget that in their blind hype of Mayweather's win over a very past prime Mosley. YET a 2007 version of Mosley is still a good win to have!

Prime Judah - good win, Judah was never a special fighter though

Clottey - To be fairest to both parties, this should really be considered a draw.

Foreman, Quintana - ermm...who?

Malignaggi - prime, a good name on the resume.

We need to take into account head-to-head ability too...Cotto is not a H2H monster like other HOF's.

I don't think he will ever fight Golovkin. He would get murdered by Golovkin regardless tbh.

How do you think he isn't the lowest tier of HOF's?

 

:huh Someone like Azumah Nelson, Erik Morales - they are Top 75-80. Cotto is NOT as great as that.

Someone like Joe Calzaghe, Ernesto Marcel are 95-110th all time, they are clearly ATG's, and clearly greater than Cotto too.

 

I agree on guys like Nelson, Marcel, Morales being better, but not on someone like Calzaghe

I don't feel like taking the time to actually make a top 80, but if I had to guess I would definitely have Cotto at least top 90-100

 

Cotto at 90-100 is completely unwarranted.
Well I contributed a lot under a different username to the Top 100 in the classic section, go and check it out and learn about those fighters.
I won't go into Calzaghe as I don't want this to turn into a Calzaghe thread.

 

No

 

Yes

4 weight division champion

Wins over:

Paulie
Corley
Judah
Mosley
Mayorga
Margarito II
Martinez (albeit past prime)

LOSS but still looked decent against:
Margarito I (looked good most of the fight)
Pacquiao (Though he got stopped, he busted Manny's ear drum early and his win is suspect now that Freddie had no idea what Ariza was putting in his shakes)
Mayweather (Busted his nose, made him very uncomfortable at times)
Trout (Could have went either way. Though I had Trout by 2 rds., who was then undefeated)

 

those are decent fights not ATG wins . Mayorga? Look you guys who think he was ATG need more knowledge about boxing history. Look up what a real ATG does and how he dominates other great fighters. Who he beats. Corley and Judah and Mayorga in a list is not proving anyone is anything but a fighter.

 

He is definitevely a HOF first ballot, he would have to revenge his loses to PBF & Pacquiao to be considered as the TRUE definition of top 30 ATG...