Is De La Hoya overated?

PowerPuncher · Nov 12, 2012

TheSouthpaw said: ↑

When did DLH say black guys cant take shots to the body!????
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Not sure, I heard it on ESB a few times though

NoNeck · Nov 12, 2012

PowerPuncher said: ↑

Not sure, I heard it on ESB a few times though
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Yeah, I've heard he said that somewhere. I don't remember who he said it reference to though.

TheSouthpaw · Nov 12, 2012

Well im sure by now DLH has eaten his words!...I think Mosley did pretty damn good brushin off his body shots..

TheSouthpaw · Nov 12, 2012

PowerPuncher said: ↑

Not sure, I heard it on ESB a few times though
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Oh well it must be true then..

NoNeck · Nov 12, 2012

TheSouthpaw said: ↑

Oh well it must be true then..
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A quick google search sure produced a shitstorm: https://www.google.com/search?q=de+...rg.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-beta

TheSouthpaw · Nov 12, 2012

NoNeck said: ↑

A quick google search sure produced a shitstorm: https://www.google.com/search?q=de+...rg.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-beta
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what the hell was he thinkin? and it sounds ike hes talkin about just one guy.:-(

TheSouthpaw · Nov 12, 2012

I think DLH let his mouth overide his ass on that one!..But it sounds like its just some trash talk

Gesta · Nov 13, 2012

PowerPuncher said: ↑

So an Oscar fan then Oscar just wasn't that good, I thought Quartey beat him clearly, Whitaker was closer but he just wasn't that effective, close though.

Against Trinidad he landed more punches but was continually on the backfoot and only working for 30seconds of a round not to mention his opponent lands the better punches, he's losing all the effective aggression scoring. He also kissed goodbye to the championship rounds, now I think he should got the verdict but it's not making it clear to the judges. Against Mosley 2 again he lost the championship rounds and arguably the second half of the fight but probably built up enough points, still pretty close but again backing up and shipping the bigger punches. Any judge favouring effective aggression gives the fight to Mosley. No way is Mosley 2 more clear of a robbery than Quartey, except for the cheerleading commentators

Mayweather retired at 30, then in his comeback he fights the guys he was supposedly avoiding in Mosley/Cotto. Those 2-4years he took to fight Cotto and Mosley is pretty much the same amount of time it took Delahoya to fight Trinidad and Quartey after his Whitaker win. For the wrongs and rights of it, Pacquaio turned down a blood test and 50% to face Mayweather in '09. That's a far better offer than De La Hoya ever offered Winky Wright, 6 million, and is a better offer than Mayweather himself got against DLH, 35%.

Hopkins wasn't the strongest but is much better than you make out. He was 38 for Delahoya at a 157lb catch weight btw. Not to mention he'd go onto beat Winky Wright, Tarver, and arguably Joe Calzaghe (at 43) after that.

Both are easily greater than Delahoya
quote]

On one side we have Pacman , who climbed divisions to face Morales, Barrera & JMM one after the other & has fought them a combined 8 times, fought Lebweda on short notice. The other fought Corley, Brusses, Gatti & Sharmba Mitchell one after the other and just so happened to retire as his division was heating up.

Who should we belive? who has the track record of facing the best?

It does not change the fact the Hopkins was chased out of his own division by Jermain Taylor, becuase he could not beat him.

Winky cannot be trusted to make sound business discisions, I would take what he says with a grain of salt.
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Waynegrade · Nov 13, 2012

ushvinder said: ↑

But here is the problem, if oscar doesnt get credit for beating old versions of whitaker and chavez, why should bernard hopkins get credit for beating oscar, de la hoya is significantly smaller than him.
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I don`t know of anyone who gives Hopkins big props for beating Oscar... It was too much of a jump for Oscar, he took a shot. Certainly didn`t give Hop too much to brag about...

Waynegrade · Nov 13, 2012

anj said: ↑

LISTEN UP GUYS, THIS WILL END THE THREAD:

Having watched fights, researched and even looked at arguments all over youtube, I will like to enlighten you.

Oscar beats the mexican great warriors Ruelas, John John Molina, Leija, G. Hernandez at lightweight.

Beats a very good (not quite at his prime but still great) Chavez Sr, beats Gonzalez who at the time was regarded as great as Ricardo Lopez and Chavez Sr.

Beats Whitaker in my opinion as Oscar lands far more power punches and did more damage as a result, but for the sake of fairness I mentally register it as a draw. There is no way I have Whitaker winning the fight. Whitaker was no slower than he was during that fight, than in his prime.

Speaking of Whitaker, he arguably lost at LEAST once to Rivera. Oscar blitzed him.

Oscar also beats the very good Ike Quartey.

Oscar won the Trinidad fight. Everyone knows this. Even Oscar's trainer told Oscar during the latter rounds that Oscar was far ahead on the scorecards so should just keep running away and not get involved in a brawl, to ensure he got the win.

Oscar had a VERY close first fight with Mosley. Oh wait! Mosley was on steroids! Oscar beats Mosley in the rematch, outlands Mosley by almost 100 punches on compubox and boxing analysts say it's one of the biggest robberies in boxing history. Even Mosley said he lost the fight.

Oscar beats Vargas while Vargas was on steroids. Vargas beat greats like Winky Wright, Ike Quartey and was even stellar in the amateurs.

After winning the rematch against Mosley, Oscar was never the same again. Mentally I believe he became very comfortable with his fame by then, he was getting money that the likes of Mosley and even Mayweather at the time can only dream of. He had life easier. Due to this mental effect, he was no longer in his prime...hence why he lost against Felix Sturm, a guy who was meant to be a tune up fight for Bernard Hopkins. Obviously the fight against Hopkins ended in no other manner than a devestating KO loss for Oscar.

By the time he fought Mayweather, he was 34 years old and he had drug problems which further undoubtedly had an effect.

Pacquiao beat the shell of the elite Oscar, not the real Oscar:
1. Oscar's drug problems in 2008 became even worse, he had depression also as a result.
2. Oscar's ring age was old.
3. Oscar was 35 years old.
4. Oscar was drained from 154 to 145lbs catchweight. Understand that Oscar had been fighting comfortably at 154lbs since 2001! 7 years before the fight against Pacquiao.

Once people realise the truth about Oscar that I have mentioned, they will regard him as an ATG, who further puts him above Pacquiao.

Oscar has a better resume than Mayweather, although Mayweather in my view is a better fighter.
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Keep in minds that a shell Of Oscar gave PBF a lot of problems ... In fact, I had him doing great until he stopped jabbing... Prime Oscar, might have been a different story ...

Waynegrade · Nov 13, 2012

I thought the loss to Trinidad was bogus. but, I thought the losses to Mosely ( a moving up lightweight) hurts his overall status.

Flea Man · Nov 13, 2012

Waynegrade said: ↑

I thought the loss to Trinidad was bogus. but, I thought the losses to Mosely ( a moving up lightweight) hurts his overall status.
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Hardly 'moving up' just not cutting stupid amounts of weight.

anj · Nov 13, 2012

Waynegrade said: ↑

Keep in minds that a shell Of Oscar gave PBF a lot of problems ... In fact, I had him doing great until he stopped jabbing... Prime Oscar, might have been a different story ...
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It's a hard fight to call. I could see a De La Hoya win 116-112, but I could also see it going another split decision with Mayweather being very accurate.

There are not many ATG's with a resume full of elite fighters (in their primes/not weakened).

De La Hoya-Whitaker will always be a close one even if they are at their primes or if De La Hoya was as shot as he was against Pacquiao.

Flea Man · Nov 13, 2012

How would Pea-Oscar be close if he was in the state he was against Manny?!

anj · Nov 13, 2012

Flea Man said: ↑

How would Pea-Oscar be close if he was in the state he was against Manny?!
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It's the case of styles IMO. Pea doesn't have great knockout power to finish Oscar off easily either.

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