Is Dempsey/Willard the Most Overrated Victory Ever?

Sorry I duplicated my post.atsch

 

"When is the last time you saw any challenger in any weight class dismantle a reigning lineal champion so decisively."

Jimmy McClarnin vs Young Corbett III

Sonny Liston vs Floyd Patterson (twice)

Mike Tyson vs Michael Spinks

Jimmy Carruthers vs Vic Toweel

 

Burt--You seem to be arguing that Dempsey should be rated higher for ko'ing "big men" or "giants".

Actually, the record shows the little fellows were harder to ko. Could you, or anyone else, give me any factual evidence that the big fellows were harder to stop? Here are Dempsey's opponents:

Luis Angel Firpo--3 ko'd bys in 39 fights (ko'd in 1 by 167 lb Angel Rodriguez)

Fred Fulton--9 ko'd bys in 110 fights (ko'd in 1 by 188 lb Billy Miske)

Carl Morris--5 ko'd bys in 83 fights

Jess Willard--3 ko'd bys in 35 fights

Willard perhaps aside, there is no evidence any of these men were particularly durable, and Fulton seems to have been downright weak-chinned.
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On the other hand

Gene Tunney--never stopped in 86 fights

Tommy Gibbons--1 ko'd by in 106 fights

Billy Miske--1 ko'd by in 105 fights (by Dempsey)

Battling Levinsky--4 ko'd by in 287 fights (inc by Dempsey, but also by the lighter Carpentier)

Conclusion--The ko of Billy Miske is actually the most impressive Dempsey scored (if Miske was in fighting form). If not Miske, I would say it was Battling Levinsky. There is certainly an argument for Willard.

**Burt, as an aside, you argue your position very well. Keep up the good work.

 

Edward, every fighter is hard to ko. But certain kos are highly unusual. I must be a pain in the butt to certain posters that love to go against the
accepted opinions of the VAST majority of experts who saw the young
Jack Kearns trained Jack Dempsey and raved about the Manassa mauler circa 1919-1923. They hold him in contempt today ,ninety years after
his prime when he considered the greatest offensive heavyweight right up to the time of Joe Louis. I, who have been amongst boxing people since
I can remember,and was told of the panther-like greatness of young Dempsey by people who saw him fight and train[ my dad included], cannot sit idly about, whilst some posters with a closed mind, constantly demean his legacy...To sit on my duff and remain silent gives me AGITA, so I must join the fray and defend the man who captured all of America's attention
after WW1. Was he the greatest heavyweight ever at his lethal best is
open to conjecture, but was he the small, wild, unskilled, racist, OVERATED
stiff that today's [ screw history naysayers] depict him today ? NAY I say...
Cheers to you Edward...:hi:

 

There you go again S.
1-you miss the reason for the signifance of Dempsey's ko of Big Jess Willard....Of course there were more significant heavyweight fights before the battle of Toledo. You must know that. I'll cite Corbett's ko of the old school John L Sullivan in 1892, 21 rounds.
2- Bob Fitzimmons solar plexus ko of Jim Corbett in 1897 in the 14th round,
and Jack Johnson's ko of the aging James J Jeffries in 1910, in the 15th round. these 3 fights were more significant then the Demposey Willard fight historically, because of Jess Willard's standing as a heavyweight ...
3- But the lethal way that Jack Dempsey at 187 pounds destroyed possibly the strongest HW of all times, who was never dropped before, killed a man
[Bull Young] in the ring, took the hardest blows of the biggest hitters of his time, took every punch Jack Johnson threw at him for 25 ROUNDS, without a hint of being hurt, and Dempsey drops him with ONE left-hook, and destroys Big Jess Willard in 1 rd. This vicious destruction of the 73
pound heavier ,previous unfloored Willard endeared Jack Dempsey to the world,especially after Dempsey disposed in one round Carl Morris, Gunboat Smith, Fred Fulton, prior to the Willard ko. So Seamus it was the violent way that Dempsey destroyed the giant Willard in Toledo that was so damn significant.
As I have posted ad infinitum, it took Joe Louis 13 rounds to stop lumbering Abe Simon in 1941,after hitting Simon with every lethal punch Louis threw. Ali, larger than Dempsey hit Chuvalo, Bonavena, frazier with hundreds of punches, without even flooring them. All this is conveniently
dismissed by UNFAIR posters [who know better] so they can degrade the memory of the toughest, roughest, and much maligned jack Dempsey, whilst others get a pass...:hi:

 

You are paying Dempsey a prety high compliment by puting his win in this class.

Now subtract the examples where the lineal champion being destroyed was giving up some weight, 10lbs, 20lbs, 60lbs etc!

 

Now Williard had the best chin of all time eh? Hmmmm

 

Why do you snicker Ku ? What have you read of Jess Willard prior to the Dempsey fight ? Have you read or studied accounts of eyewitnesses of Jess Willard's ability to absorb blows right on the button and shake those blows off ? Have you read the reports by Bob Edgren who saw all of Willards fights before and after the Toledo fight, in which he marvels at the 260 pound Willards ability to take tremendous shots by large heavyweights and not even be dazed ? Well until you read these accounts of those days, your opinions and questioning of my statement of Willards great chin is suspect and not complete...Cheers.

 

im not sure what would qualify as a "a great watershed moment in pure fistic terms". fights are just fights
its easy to declare willard the most susceptible most ripe to be taken, and the weakest champion with the hindsght knowing waht dempsey did to him. history shows that what dempsey did is rare. other champions have come back off similar layoffs and been more competitive against great fighters. And some great champons have struggled to get to big lumps like willard