Is Dempsey/Willard the Most Overrated Victory Ever?

C, true...I see Dempsey in a different light than Dempsey's MODERN DETRACTORS. We each see Jack Dempsey in different prisms...
I see Dempsey as his contemporaries did, as a rare fighter that seldom comes along in that he at 187-95 pounds ,was as Nat Fleischer described along with others as "amazingly strong ". With a killing attitude, taughtly built with great two-handed power,and in his prime ,as FAST as WW or MW
fighters... Years ago I noticed a hint of his unusual strength, when he after koing his man would put his gloved hands under the arms of his ko victims and lift this dead weight up and on their feet. His WILL to conquer knew no equals in the heavyweight ranks... So in short I see a strong heavyweight,
unencumbered with trailer weight, that allows him to move like a WW with heavyweight power.
His detractors see him as a small HW, that would be cannon fodder to today's heavyweight dreadnaughts...I, see and read what a Joe Walcott, a Jack Dillon, a Sam Langford, a Mickey Walker, a Harry Greb, a Henry Armstrong, a Charley Burley,and others were able to do with bigger men
which reinforces the old adage that "speed kills ".
I rest my case...

 

Not really Burt. My problem is you rank him much higher than his record and achievements should allow. His competition was poor, he was an inactive champion, he never faced his best challenger during his reign, he was dominated twice by the best fighter he faced and he also has a couple of questionable losses.

He does have cool hair and dancer's legs though.

 

You think Dempsey may be your favourite fighter ever yet then proceed to trash him in almost every post?:huh
I admit its a good way of seeming unbiased as opposed to just being a hater but really its very transparent and anyone who can read can clearly see it.
By all means trash the man,his resume,his reign etc etc if that is indeed your opinion but dont pretend the man is your fave fighter.:-(

 

280lb shoulders, lightweight legs, twin fisted, naysayers, modern detractors, 90 years later, lo, nat fleischer, halycon days, when men were men, viceral hatred, reverse racism, la vida loca, trainspotting

, cheers

 

Glory Hallelujah, you finall got it !!! Even if U jest....
P.S. Many thanks from the Manassa Mauler...

 

Are there? I would say men like Jones, Whitaker and Greb, men capable of literally boxing on another planet to world class opponents are far rarer than men like Tua, Jackson and McLellan who are capable of finishing fights with one punch/ a follow up, whatever. I'd say that's pretty clear? But either way, whether great finishers or great boxers are more common or rarer, it doesn't matter at all. What matters is who they beat, what determination the result brought to that fighter's class.

Put in the crudest possible terms, totally outboxing an opponent proves a great depth of quality than knocking an opponent out in one round does.
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Punchers are ten a penny.

All time technicians are rare.

All time finishers are as rare as hens teeth.

Finishers who laugh at substantial weight disadvantages are a rare breed indeed.

If you want to find a paralell for what Dempsey did to the big guys of his era, then you are prety much looking at Joe Louis or Sam Langford.

Do you then wate Dempseys domination of Tommy Gibbons on the score cards higher than his demolition of Willard or Fulton?

Personaly I would,but I am not sure that most people at the time would have.

But when they fight the elite big guys, something verry interesting happens.

Tyson still dominates tham, but has to settle for decision wins.

Tua starts loosing.

Dempsey is in a verry select class in terms of his ability to destroy bigger elite fighters.

So was Dempsey the only person to have this opportunity because a lot of people his size could have done it but chose not to?

Lets say that we change the criteria to include bigger fighters who were curently among the top 10 at the time.

Then Tua and Tyson are playing catch up.

It is easy to do something when somebody else has given you the template for doing it. Your postman can replicate Hillarys feat, using a well worked out formula, guided by a world class profesional, and even then there is a 1 in 6 chance that he will die in the atempt.

In Dempseys case however, verry few pwople have managed to replicate is acomplishment. He is not Hillary, he is Messner.

 

S, Now your'e milking this thread...

 

S,you say you'll stick to story's of" carrying heifers 13 miles in hip-deep snow ". So to try inject some humor, I replied " you are trying to milk this thread ". atsch

 

but who exactly is saying ?
you are putting forward a strawman.

i dont see anyone rating dempsey's thrashing of willard as the greatest victory ever or even many putting it in the top few HEAVYweights wins ever.
no one puts it up with frazier beating ali or schmeling beats louis or even douglas against tyson in pure value as a win.

it IS one of the most brutal beatdowns of a reigning champion, by a challenger in his absolute prime. and thats mostly what i hear people say about it.