Is Dempsey/Willard the Most Overrated Victory Ever?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Seamus, Dec 21, 2011.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    More than that, they are still happy today. It's rightly remembered as one of the most exciting, the most special HW title fights of all time.

    It's undebiable that Firpo was horrifically crude though. Of course, so were other HW's who had success, before and after.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    This, too, is incredibly overrated. Head to head, Dempsey's level of competition does not match Tyson's in terms of real-sized, modern heavies, most with extensive amateur backgrounds and culled from a much larger talent base (i.e. he fought blacks as well)...
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Dempsey has Fulton KO1.

    This is certainly better than any KO1 Tyson has, and lifts him up IMO.

    The fighters in Tyson's barn-storming run were awful for the most part, and calls for him to step up were deafening. Interesting how subservient Tyson was in these days, he answered every single ESPN question on the subject with the same reply - "you're speaking to the wrong guy, speak to my manager."
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    The Fulton win was excellent but was it better than Tyson KO'ing Spinks in 1, the champ who twice beat one of most dominant champs in heavyweight history?
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No, but they two are not directly comparable. I'm talking about their respective barn-storming runs towards the title and how far these went to illuminating the respective fighters in the nation's coscniousness. Spinks isn't a part of that and is probably more directly comparable to Demspey's KO of Willard, Miske or even Carpantier.
     
  6. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Janitor 'Does anyone else have a victory as good as Dempsey, I mean who else beat someone while being outweighed by 60lbs, when in a lineal title fight, at exactly 2:35second of the thirdly round, while eating a cheese and pickle (with no onion) 2hours beforehand'

    Me: 'Well um someone did do something similar but didn't eat the cheese and....'

    Janitor: 'SEEEEEEEEE, It's not the same, no one else did exactly the same exact thing that Dempsey did so look that means it's a great great win'
     
  7. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Spinks did absolutely nothing against Tyson - nothing - he was terrified and went to a knee the first time Tyson gave him the hint - as much as Tyson looked a force of nature I find it difficult to gauge anything from a fight where it looked like the opponent didn't belong in there with him in that frame of mind - whereas Fulton was at the time probably the front runner for a challenge of Jess Willard, was 5 inches taller with an 84 and a half inch reach and had ko'd Frank Moran, Gunboat Smith, Bob Devers and Sam Langford and Tom Cowler so he was a top contender of the era and a threat and mentally I assume probably came in feeling like a favourite as opposed to Spinks who was like a rabbit caught in the headlights
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I don't think Fulton did that much against Dempsey, to be honest.
     
  9. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Firstly, if any are even still extant today, they are drooling on their bibs.

    Secondly, it was a back alley brawl with Dempsey having an enormous advantage in skill, only made interesting because after 7 knockdowns he apparently forgot this advantage. There was so much wrong about that fight I don't even know where to begin. OK... 7 knockdowns in a round is a good time to stop a fight because it is one-sided. After his 5th KD of Firpo, Dempsey got nailed, both gloves touched the canvas, but no KD was given to Firpo. Dempsey got pushed out of the ring but it was ruled a KD. Dempsey was out of the ring for 14 seconds by some estimations but he only received a four count. After being ruled a KD'd out of the ring, Dempsey was assisted back into the ring.

    Bad officiating, bad skills on display... Either Dempsey's vaunted skills had eroded considerably or he was fighting down to the level of his opponent.
     
  10. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    to put in context Dempseys win over willard and why i think its not overrated perhaps condider joe louis kayo of Braddock.
    jimmy braddock too was coming off a long layoff - two years and he wasnt a great champion by any means either. He gave Louis a stiff fight for a couple of rounds and had him on the floor in the 1st and lasted until the 8th round. and that wasnt an awful performance from the brown bomber. braddock like willard was a proud champion both tried hard to defend the title.

    i think Dempsey was clearly more impressive in winning the title than joe Louis for one example. against similar opposition. and theres no denying that Louis was a phenomonal champ.

    like said before the number of comparable heavyweight title winning perfromances as dempsey-willard we can probably count on 1 hand.
     
  11. Conn

    Conn Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    regardless of all that it was an entertaining brawl. and nothing you can say will change that. and in spite of all the inconsistent officiating most are satified that the better fighter won.
    im sure the paying fans and all boxing fans since then (except maybe you being the one exception) were grateful that tex Rickard had hoodwinked them into buying it.
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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  13. JimmyShimmy

    JimmyShimmy 1050 psi Full Member

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    Willard was not the same guy as he was in Cuba, granted, but he was still a tough guy who had preparred for a tough fight.

    The extent to which he has been made to be inactive and helpless often goes overboard.

    It's often a common quip that Willard was well overweight. Lest we forget Willard was a bigger man than Lennox Lewis! 245 to 230 is very little. Inactiveness was the main problem.

    Even still, this was not an easy man to get rid of! That's the whole point. I don't think any other fighter could have got rid of Willard as Dempsey did that day. Hell, Jess was beginning to hit back in the third and Dempsey started to freak out a bit.

    Everything considered, it was an awesome victory.
     
  14. manbearpig

    manbearpig A Scottish Noob Full Member

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    Is Conn Unforgiven? Taking a wild shot here...
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm satisfied Braddock was better than Willard.