is Duran overrated as a lightweight? quality of opposition?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Aug 4, 2017.


Page 15 of 18
  1. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,116
    5,732
    Feb 26, 2009
    Barkley was still a limited guy who is known as a one punch wonder. He was an ESPN fighter before Hearns, and actually I think Kalambay beat him on ESPN. I swear to you I picked Duran to beat Barkley. Duran would not have beaten Olajide or Tate or anyone like that. Guys like Roldan and Barkley he could beat..
     
    PernellSweetPea, Aug 11, 2017
    PernellSweetPea, Aug 11, 2017
    #211
  2. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,116
    5,732
    Feb 26, 2009
    isn't that what the thread is about?
     
    PernellSweetPea, Aug 11, 2017
    PernellSweetPea, Aug 11, 2017
    #212
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,144
    13,100
    Jan 4, 2008
    Good for you.

    He also outboxed the nr 1 p4p.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 11, 2017
    Bokaj, Aug 11, 2017
    #213
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,144
    13,100
    Jan 4, 2008
    He was facing a guy his size, and it's not like he was overpowered. He was outboxed.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 11, 2017
    Bokaj, Aug 11, 2017
    #214
  5. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,578
    Nov 24, 2005
    Good point.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    #215
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  6. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,234
    6,499
    Jan 22, 2009
    No doubt. Actually Whitaker looked the stronger if the 2. I always believed Pernell had underrated physical strength. But 147 was out of Chavez's comfort zone and he was past it. Just 2 or 3 fights and a few months later, he was beaten by Frankie Randall at 140, a good fighter but one that no one would put on Chavez's level pound for pound.
     
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    #216
  7. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    20,234
    6,499
    Jan 22, 2009
    Benn didnt knock him out. It was the 3 knockdown rule. Barkley could have continued. Do you think Whitaker would have beaten Barkley?
     
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    #217
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,840
    44,550
    Apr 27, 2005
    Oh i doubt even Unforgiven considers him a non ATG. It's not about if he was an ATG (any numbskull with any idea whatsoever about boxing would know he is), it's about whether he is automatically top 2 or 3.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    #218
  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,840
    44,550
    Apr 27, 2005
    I recently read your ATG articles at each weight. Great articles btw. I reckon you would have heavily scrutinized resumes before coming up with Duran at #3?
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    #219
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,840
    44,550
    Apr 27, 2005
    One doesn't have to make Barkley into an ATG to give Duran credit for a fantastic achievement. He was a long term 135 pound world champion ffs. This 135 pound champ won the Middleweight title 17 years after winning the lightweight title at the age of 37. Whitaker was 6 years retired at this 17 year mark. Duran was winning Middleweight titles over people that had stopped Tommy Hearns. Go figure.

    If you want to try to heavily downplay this achievement then good luck achieving credability.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    #220
    Clinton likes this.
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    28,144
    13,100
    Jan 4, 2008
    Perhaps his confidence took a knock, perhaps he underrated Randall, I don't know. But he was undefeated and nr 1 p4p going into the fight against Pea, and it was a big fight against the best he'd faced.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 12, 2017
    Bokaj, Aug 12, 2017
    #221
  12. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    52,840
    44,550
    Apr 27, 2005
    Could have been simply declining too.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    #222
    Clinton likes this.
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

    58,748
    21,578
    Nov 24, 2005
    He's definitely an ATG and one of the greatest lightweights.
    Yes, I question those who INSIST Duran has to be top 2 or 3 at lightweight.
    mcvey ranks him #4, I think he said.
    I suspect anywhere in the top 6 or 7 could be argued, since lightweight is such a strong division.
    His resume is a little weak, some of his performances don't quite live up to the mythical image, but his reign and dominant position cannot be doubted ... And when he was on fire he certainly was a fighter for the ages.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    #223
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,002
    48,092
    Mar 21, 2007
    For sure, but I locked at ranked guys and significants - that's much more quantifiable. You want something where every win is taken into account. So that means everyone's journeymen, bums, etc., have to be compared as much as it's possible. Hard stuff.
     
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    #224
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    113,002
    48,092
    Mar 21, 2007
    It's unquestionably the case, yeah. If you just did "who did he beat?", a list like that, for example, he gets no credit for this awesome title run, no credit for his awesome appearance on film and all that there. I reckon you could probably organise him outside the top ten depending on how you see - or chose to see - certain details. But that's a guess.
     
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    #225
Page 15 of 18