is Duran overrated as a lightweight? quality of opposition?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Aug 4, 2017.


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  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Losses go against the wins tho. You can't have say 3 great wins and 8 losses and expect to be near the top.
     
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    JohnThomas1, Aug 12, 2017
    #226
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yes, it depends on criteria in ranking, and frankly, any lightweight top 10 under any criteria that includes quality of opposition would take a ton of research if you wanted to be dead serious in sticking to criteria. There's too many good fighters with TOO MANY FIGHTS and when you start digging in turns out there are second tier opponents in some eras with credentials of first tier or champions in other eras, and the standard is so high through the history of the division it can hurt the brain.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    Unforgiven, Aug 12, 2017
    #227
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well people's criteria are up to themselves, I think. It's not the way I would chose to rank fighters, but it wouldn't make me vomit of anything, either.
     
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    McGrain, Aug 12, 2017
    #228
  4. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good points, but he didnt look good in the Randall rematch either. Plus even though he may have been rated p4p 1, i think it may have been the same case with both Hagler and Tszyu who were both rated super highly because they hadnt lost in a real long time, but were clearly past their best.
     
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    #229
  5. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    That of course can't be ruled out, but it wasn't the thinking before the fight as far as I know.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 12, 2017
    Bokaj, Aug 12, 2017
    #230
  6. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fair enough
     
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    #231
  7. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This is true. However, Im not sure, but I believe it was his debut at 147 and he didnt look good in the subsequent Randall fights either.
     
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    Clinton, Aug 12, 2017
    #232
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just incredible that a young generation is questioning the greatness of Roberto Duran as a LIGHTWEIGHT! At that weight I know of no fighter in my lifetime that exhibited the level of ATG characteristics more so than Duran. He had no glaring weaknesses. Extremely quick, could punch non stop for 15 rounds, deadly punching power in either fist, tough, killer instinct with all the feints and cute moves one would expect being trained by old timers such as Arcel.
     
    Perry, Aug 12, 2017
    Perry, Aug 12, 2017
    #233
  9. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Were you alive and following boxing during the days of Freddie Welsh, Charley White and Benny Leonard ?
    Did you live through the era of Canzoneri ? Did you see Sammy Mandell on his best night ?
    Do you remember Sid Terris ?
    Did you frequent the gyms of New York in the 1940s ?
    Did you witness Ike Williams, Beau Jack, Bob Montgomery and Willie Joyce ?
    Did you actually live through the era ?

    Or are you older than that ?
    Did you live through the era of Joe Gans ?
    Were his challengers well known and well regarded ?

    Did you actually live through the era ?
    Did you actually live through the era ?
    Did you actually live through the era ?
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 13, 2017
    Unforgiven, Aug 13, 2017
    #234
    Bokaj and BlackCloud like this.
  10. JackSilver

    JackSilver Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Perry was originally born rip van winkle.
     
    JackSilver, Aug 13, 2017
    JackSilver, Aug 13, 2017
    #235
    SHADAPBLAD likes this.
  11. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    A splendid speech sir, which had to be said.
    Alas i fear it will be wasted as Perry / Houdini will simply trot out the same old " i lived through that era " & " i watched that fight live " as though no-one else on these forums did.
     
    BlackCloud, Aug 13, 2017
    BlackCloud, Aug 13, 2017
    #236
    Unforgiven likes this.
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I lived through the Duran era of the 1970's. You did not live through ANY of those eras INCLUDING the 70's.
     
    Perry, Aug 13, 2017
    Perry, Aug 13, 2017
    #237
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    You're just a young upstart. If you weren't sniffing the jock strap of Juan Zurita over at Stillman's in 1945 you have nothing to teach here.
     
    Unforgiven, Aug 13, 2017
    Unforgiven, Aug 13, 2017
    #238
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  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Actually, he had two fight between Pea and Randall. Just as he had two fights between Haugen (which I think most would have as one of his best performances) and Pea.
     
    Bokaj, Aug 13, 2017
    Bokaj, Aug 13, 2017
    #239
    Clinton likes this.
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not living through the Duran era and coming from a European perspective provides a double handicap. Not knowing boxing technically is perhaps a third. All you can base opinions upon are numbers. It's very similar to those that now question Ali's all time ranking. They do not see the details.
     
    Perry, Aug 13, 2017
    Perry, Aug 13, 2017
    #240
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