is Duran overrated as a lightweight? quality of opposition?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Unforgiven, Aug 4, 2017.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So how can you place Duran accurately if you didn't live through ALL the eras?
    You didn't live through the 1890s or the 1920s, so how can you rank Duran in history?
    On the other hand, I could dig up quotes from grizzled old boxing guys in the 1970s who DID live through the 1920s and placed Duran outside the top 10 greats. They spanned both eras. Should we defer to them?
    If not, why not?
     
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  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's always best to look upon a fighters career after the fact. It's the only way to truely know if they passed the test of all time greatness. So post the 70's to assess Durans Lightweight ranking. Like Ali Duran is almost always top three....along with Gans and Leonard. So in effect by questioning Durans ranking to put him say 7th you are going against most all American (the one that counts) expert thought which would be akin to putting Ali below top three all time at hwt. Questionable at best. Arcel who lived through most all the eras (20th century) also rated Duran very highly.
     
  3. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Baseball has come up with many new types of statistics through the Sabermetrics method that we never used even 10 years ago. Things like WAR, WHIP, etc. Used to only see RBI, BA, ERA.

    The fact that boxing doesn't have a statistical means of evaluating boxers is just another reason it's falling behind other sports in popularity IMO. And having multiple "belts" from the alphabet organizations doesn't help because they are based on corruption, greed, and nonsense. Even The Ring's rankings are now suspect.

    Yes, I know there are "lies, damned lies, and statistics" but surely boxing could come up with an objective ranking system? Then again, who am I kidding?
     
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, yeah.
    And he also happened to be his trainer.

    We all rank Duran very highly.
     
  5. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    And Arcel saw First hand all the fighters you claim are better than Duran from Leonard onward INCLUDING training Duran himself.
     
  6. JackSilver

    JackSilver Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So you don't think a trainer will be bias in favour of his own fighter?
     
  7. bodhi

    bodhi Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

    How does it make ones opinion more valid when you are American?

    Gesendet von meinem LG-H815 mit Tapatalk
     
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sounds like you are already one step removed because you did not live through the era. Living in another country you are two steps removed.
     
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    :sisi1

    There's no question that Duran's an ATG, but I do think he gets overrated when people say his #1 or #2 LW ranking is set in stone. To be clear: his longevity, LW campaign and win over Leonard are fantastic for sure. But I'll be honest, he seems to get a ton of leeway of the negatives of his career. Excuses, if you will.

    Many seems to pretend like Leonard held a gun to his face and forced him out of shape into a rematch. Not at all; Duran was the champion, he held all the cards. He choose the date, and it was his responsibility to be in shape. Him not being in shape isn't an excuse, it's a black mark on his resume. Him quitting in possibly the most shameful way in several decades of title fights is another black mark. At the end of the day, Leonard clearly bested him in their series: he won more and his wins were one-sided AF.

    Then there's the excuses for Benetiz (he ran?), and Laing. Lastly, his record against the lot of Hagler/Leonard/Hearns is 1-4. So without even considering the depth of talent at LW, I think there's enough to doubt his mandatory GOAT status.
     
  10. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Duran is rated top 2-3 as a lightweight almost universally. Been rated that highly for decades.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's Chris Pontius!
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It's not a question of only Arcel. Duran is rated almost universally top 2-3 lightweight champion. Been that way for decades.

    Arcel was a very respected voice in the boxing community. Not many saw what he saw and was at the same time able to communicate it articulately.
     
  13. JackSilver

    JackSilver Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Maybe the young generation that you hate and have so much contempt for are just a bit more flexible if not more knowledgeable in their thinking. With access to info about just out any event that happened in the past, people can make up their own minds rather than blindly accepting the word of people that lived through it.
     
  14. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No. You just have no idea what you are talking about. Sorry.
     
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Back in the 60's and 70's New York was the absolute Mecca for boxing. All local newspapers religiously covered the major bouts in terms of the lead up to, the bouts themselves and aftermath. Living in the NY area was an education like no other if you were truely into the sport of boxing. A few hour drive and you could watch Ali train. Most major fighters would train in the area as well. (Philadelphia, Playboy club in north NJ). Not only did I watch Ali train but also Duran, Foreman, Frazier, Shavers, Lyle....many others.
     


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