Is duran slightly overrated as an ATG?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Forza, Jun 16, 2018.


  1. Xplosive

    Xplosive Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    A forum that worships bum ass Wlad, fraud ass Calzaghe, and overrated ass Loma, is inquiring if Roberto ****ing Duran is overrated?

    Unbelievable...
     
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  2. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    He was 2-1 against De Jesus, I agree he lost to Barkley, & I also agree he stopped Buchanan with a massive ball shot the ref let go as a legal punch.
     
  3. rorschach51

    rorschach51 A Legend & A Gentleman Full Member

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    Except he didn't knock out Barkley.
     
  4. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is an opinion. Top ten great to me is had he beaten Hearns and Benitez at 154.. Sure he has excuses why he didn't. Well then he is not top 10 ATG in my mind. Top 25 or 30.. How is that bad? To get to that lofty top 10 you don't have to beat all time greats? I use facts to get them there, not just oh that is where he should be.
     
  5. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    No. He beat the greatest fighter of my lifetime, giving up height, weight, and age, in the other guy's prime.

    Enuff said.
     
  6. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you mean Ray Leonard, then where does that put Ray in the all time great. One win against one great in a fight which was close and Ray fighting his fight, and still Duran does not stop him does not automatically place him at 1-10 ATG.. That is one fight and then he lost to this fighting 2 more times easily. And then he lost to Wilfred,Tommy,Marvin and Ray. So that is why I cannot rate him at top 10. His lightweight reign which was average and beating Ray and winning 4 titles still don't warrant top 10. unless we put Hearns and Leonard and Hagler in there also.
     
  7. slender4

    slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    He was amazing until he hit 147. Roberto Duran beat Ernesto Marcel, arguably the greatest fighter in Panama history until Duran, when he was 17, knocked him out, Marcel never wanted a rematch. 4 years later in his last fight Marcel went the distance with Arguello and almost stopped him.
     
  8. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Best I've Faced

    Roberto Duran

    BEST SKILLS

    Ken Buchanan: Buchanan was one of the great lightweights when it came to tactics and skill. His intelligence made him very difficult to beat even though he wasn’t a very strong opponent. Sugar Ray Leonard was faster and stronger but Buchanan had tremendous skills.

    BEST JAB

    Buchanan: He was tall, boxed well and his lateral movement was extremely good. Buchanan’s jab was difficult to deal with because he threw it on the move.

    BEST DEFENSE

    Buchanan: He was hard to hit cleanly. I was very young, lacked experience, and Buchanan had been world champion for a long time. A lot of people will expect me to say Wilfred Benitez or Leonard when it comes to defense but I wasn’t prepared properly for Benitez or the Leonard rematch. Davey Moore, who I beat easily, knocked Benitez out so there’s no comparison there. I was coming into my prime against Buchanan and he made me miss often.



    BEST CHIN

    Marvelous Marvin Hagler: I hit Hagler with a lot of punches and he just kept coming. I didn’t find him as skillful as some of the opponents I faced but he was the toughest.

    BEST PUNCHER

    Esteban De Jesus: De Jesus was the first opponent to knock me down and he had me down again in the second fight. When I lost to Thomas Hearns I was drained from losing weight too quickly, and that had a bad effect on me. Hearns got me with a great punch but I could have performed far better in a rematch. Marvin Hagler, who is a good friend of mine, told Hearns the only reason he knocked me out is because I wasn’t at my best.

    FASTEST HANDS

    Sugar Ray Leonard: He was the fastest fighter I ever fought but in the first fight I saw everything that was coming at me.

    FASTEST FEET

    Buchanan: At lightweight the opponents were much swifter on their feet and, back then, we were boxing in 15-round fights. Buchanan always kept on the move but I caught up with him eventually. That victory means a lot to me.

    SMARTEST

    Leonard: It’s hard to give you one name but Leonard stands out because he made adjustments during fights.

    STRONGEST

    Hagler: It was an extremely close fight but he got me tired late. Even though I built myself up to middleweight, Hagler was much bigger and used his strength on the inside. After making weight, a fighter rehydrates and there was a big difference there. Still, even when I was tired, Hagler couldn’t get me down. There was no way I was going to get the decision but some fans and reporters thought I’d done enough. Hagler had big American fights pending with Leonard and Hearns so there was a lot of money at stake.

    BEST OVERALL

    Leonard: I have to say Sugar Ray Leonard because look at what he did in his career after he lost to me. It takes a lot to come back from defeat and Leonard did it.






    Marvin Hagler


    BEST JAB
    Thomas Hearns:
    He was a person who was trying to stick and move, he used his jab a lot. He had a great jab.

    BEST DEFENSE
    Ray Leonard:
    He didn’t come to fight, he came to last. He came to go the distance, he didn’t come to knock me out. He just wanted to survive, so I would have to say he used his best defense to survive.


    FASTEST HANDS
    Roberto Duran:
    He caught me for three rounds at the start of the fight, which I didn’t understand. He caught me with an overhand right. As soon as I would jab, he’d throw the right hand. It didn’t hurt me too much, but it was annoying, aggravating. I really didn’t know what was happening, so I went back to the corner and asked my cornerman. I said, “What’s happening?” He said, “Marv, what he’s doing is that he’s timing you. Every time you shoot that jab out, he’ll go over with a right hand.” After [that], I started faking instead of just throwing it, and I started getting a better offense going.

    FASTEST FEET
    Leonard:
    You would have to say Leonard because he didn’t [just] move, he ran. It was hard to catch him. I wanted to fight because that’s what I am, I’m a champion. I’m a fighter and came to fight. I believe in that fight, I came in as an underdog. This guy didn’t want to take away my title, he wanted to survive, and it’s hard to beat a guy who just wants to survive.

    BEST CHIN
    Alan Minter:
    Believe it or not, I have to give it to Alan Minter because he was champion and he didn’t want to lose. I hit this guy with a lot of punches and he took a couple on the chin. I was amazed. I knew this was what I wanted, and I wasn’t going to stop. Unfortunately he bled early. I was still trying to knock him out with every shot. He took a lot of punishment.

    SMARTEST
    All of them (laughs):
    Because when they stepped in the ring with me, they already knew the deal: It was going to be a tough fight. They had to use their skills, their brain, their physical and mental attitude against me because I was very unorthodox. I could fight on the left-hand side and right-hand side. So they had to probably train harder to adapt to my style. But every fighter I fought, I never fought the same way. Each fight I had I was always in better condition than I was before.

    STRONGEST
    Mugabi and Tony Sibson:
    I remember seeing Tony Sibson at the weigh-in. This guy was strong. I remember when he hit me on the chest, he looked much stronger and bigger than me, and he’s supposed to be a middleweight. Mugabi, I believe he put on more weight before the fight. I could feel his body against me. He felt like a light heavyweight, he didn’t feel like a middleweight. When he threw punches, they were all deadly, very hard punches. This guy felt like a light heavyweight to me, so I had to wear him down, to take away some of that strength.

    BEST PUNCHER
    John Mugabi and Hearns:
    Because they came to fight. They came to take my title from me. Mugabi hit me with an uppercut. It didn’t hurt, but it was a hard punch, and I learned something from that. I had to regroup and come up with a different strategy. Also, with Tommy Hearns, he hit me with one good right hand, a good shot. I knew then that was his hardest punch, and I wanted more. I got more aggressive. I realized I had to keep the pressure on him, make him move and make him throw that right hand so he would leave an opening for me.

    BOXING SKILLS
    Duran:
    I would still say Roberto Duran. I loved that fight the most because between the both of us it brought out our skill, our talent. For me wanting to defend my title, for him wanting the fourth title, I mean it became a cat and mouse game. I enjoyed that fight, it was exciting.

    BEST OVERALL
    Duran:
    I would say Roberto Duran was very experienced, plus he was a three-time world champion when I fought him. I gave him the opportunity to win a fourth, which didn’t happen (laughs).

    Iran Barkley

    BEST JAB

    Roberto Duran: Wow, in my pro career, you know who I would have to say? Duran. Duran had a jab that if he hits you with it, he knew how to throw punches off of it. He set everything up off that jab. Another fighter I always thought was perfect doing that was was James ‘The Heat’ Kinchen.

    BEST DEFENSE

    James Toney: He used to protect himself and roll. I really had to figure him out. He wasn’t a big puncher but that roll was frustrating.

    FASTEST HANDS

    Thomas Hearns: Tommy had fast hands. Being tall and lanky like he was, his hands were pretty quick. Tommy had a bigger punch with everything he threw. Michael Nunn’s punches, I didn’t really feel. He was quick but I didn’t feel his punches. He wasn’t quicker than Tommy.

    FASTEST FEET

    James Kinchen: As a matter of fact, James Kinchen and another guy I that didn’t get too much recognition I fought early in my career, Mike Tinley, (had fast feet). Kinchen, he was little and he had fast little feet.

    BEST CHIN

    Duran: Duran was a good catcher. I spun Duran around with a left hook one time. It was amazing. I said, “This guy took a shot that would have knocked a building down.” [Laughs]. James Kinchen. I hit him with good shots, he would always come back, even though I was a big puncher and knocked him down a couple of times, he just came back. Toney took a good shot but he was crafty with his rolls.

    SMARTEST

    Duran: He knew just how to get out of things. No matter how hard I hit him he would always come back and figure something out, someway how to survive. Toney had a good Ring IQ.

    STRONGEST

    Duran: [Laughs] Duran was the guy. He was a little guy but no matter what I hit him with he would roll and come back. He was still able to push me a little.

    BEST PUNCHER

    Hearns: His power’s unbelievable. He was a lot stronger than I thought he was for a slim guy. Nigel [Benn] didn’t have any power to me. I felt a lot of punches but Nigel’s power to me, I didn’t really feel his power. That evening [against Benn], with me I couldn’t make [middleweight] weight anymore, I was steamed out but he did his job that he had to do. I fought guys who hit way harder than him.


    BOXING SKILLS

    Duran: His skills were sharp. He was a crafty guy. He’ll roll back and punch, he’d catch you off balance if he could. He was a smart, crafty man.

    BEST OVERALL

    Hearns: Because of his punching power and his skills, his ability to jab, move and be that tall to be able to box.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2018
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  9. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Carlos Palomino

    Best overall: “It has to be Roberto Duran. I always had the idea that he was just a brawler. What surprised me was that the guy could really box — going in and out, the feints, it was just a surprise to me. It impressed me how quick his shots were and how much power he had. And his movement surprised me.”

    Best boxer: “It would have to be Andy Price. I fought him when I was like (10-0-1) and he was like (12-1-3). I lost a split decision to him (in 1974). He was very much like Sugar Ray Leonard, very quick. I think from a boxing standpoint he was the best I faced. He was also a good puncher. You had to worry about that. He later beat Pipino Cuevas.” Leonard stopped Price (33-8-3, 13 KOs) in the first round in 1979.

    Hardest puncher: I fought this guy in the amateurs, Norman Goins from Minnesota. He did pretty well as a pro. He was a tremendous puncher. I fought him the finals of the Pan American (Games) trials and was knocked down three times, once in each round. I still won the fight — it was the amateurs — but I got dropped three times. I’ll never forget that.”

    Fastest hands: “It would be a tie between Benitez and Price. Wilfredo was just so cagey. He could hit you from different angels and very quickly, especially his jab. Most of the punches he landed against me were jabs.”

    Fastest feet: “Duran. Watch him in his prime, with Ray Leonard or my fight with him. Watch him as a lightweight. He had the ability to move in and out so quickly. I’ve said that Manny Pacquiao reminds me a lot of Duran.”

    Best jab: Benitez. It was a very quick, snapping jab, a lot like (Muhammad) Ali’s jab.”

    Best chin: Armando Muniz. You could hit him with a ring poll and nothing would happen. [Laughs.] I nailed him all night long and hurt him. He had a chin.”

    Smartest: Benitez or Duran. Maybe Benitez was natural boxer. It was almost like he had a sixth sense. I don’t think I caught him solid in my fight with him. It seemed like he knew what was coming all the time.”

    Strongest: Muniz. He would just walk in, walk you down. He was a wrestler in high school so his head was attached to his shoulders. He had no neck. He was that kind of guy. Strong.”

    Best defense: I would say Benitez and Duran (tie) again. As I said, it was like Benitez had a sixth sense, like he knew what was coming. Duran was hard to catch also. I was trying to counter what he was doing but I couldn’t because of his quickness. They were both good defensive fighters.
     
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  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Good stuff Serge. Always loved the Best I Faced series, especially when fighters are honest and candid.
     
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  11. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    So do I. They should make it a weekly feature in The Ring Magazine (or rather on their website) as I could spend all day reading them.
     
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  12. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    I like it when fairly obscure fighters get respect from the name guys. Pretty cool.
     
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  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Yeah I like that too.
     
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  14. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    funny how guys who fought the same guys rate different things great on both.. Ithink the last one is Barkley, just from the comments.
     
  15. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Barkley said Duran was the strongest, which goes against the theory Duran was this little guy. I love how Duran even in his answers excuses his loses to Benitez,Leonard and Hearns. Again it is about excuses.