Is duran slightly overrated as an ATG?

Lol. Nice.

 

No, I don't think I make excuses. I am making points which are valid. He did not beat many great fighters. How many did he beat? One? And that warrants top 10 placement in the all time great list? And he lost easily to that same fighter not one, but 2 times.. And then was easily beaten by Hearns and Benitez, and Hagler had to just edge him to win that fight. I am saying he is ranked too high if he is top 10 all time great. The lightweight reign does not put him top 10 all time great, and after that he beat Ray and no one else. And that fight against Ray if an excuse if Ray did not fight his fight is not valid, well then explain why Ray moved more in the second fight and won easily. Ray was the variable. Not a excuse but a valid point.

 

my point is had he fought Pernell or Floyd in his career even at lightweight I think he loses. He had trouble with elite speed, and the guys he fought at lightweight were not in the class of Pernell or Floyd.. I don't think you guys would argue that.

 

You just made the excuse YET AGAIN. If you want to dress it up, you can put lipstick on an excuse all you want. But at the end of the day it is still an excuse. Just admit that youre an excusemaker (actually you already have in a previous post) and we can move on from here. It is that simple. You should be honored that you and Duran have so much in common.

 

This is not a matter of me making excuses, it is up to you guys to explain why Ray boxing in the secondfight and moving was more than enough to beat Duran. Because if I say he beat him easily and made him quit, when he started to work the body and hit him to the head, you guys will come up with the excuse. The fact is Ray was the variable not Duran. Duran could not fight Ray like he did in the second fight even if he wanted to.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

you guys really don't know how to listen or know how to be objective. I am starting to wonder if you guys know what you are talking about. Ray moved in the second fight. Look at his legs. Put the fights side by side. Watch it. it is amazing the different. The variable was Ray. Even with Lalonde. Moving getting out of range of the right, feinting etc. He used his legs in the second fight, feinting, moving,, right left, holding, go to the side and countering and holding. Tactics. He did that in the second fight. I have no idea what I am talking about? Watch the second fight. November 25 I think that was the date in the year 1980.

 

Right so in the first fight Ray didn't move or use his legs and in the second fight he just chose to move. Please you can't be serious about this.

You are presenting it as a binary choice by Ray Leonard to either move around the ring or not move around the ring. It doesn't work like that. Duran has a lot to say about what the opponent does or doesn't do in the ring.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face"- Mike Tyson.

 

I am totally serious. look at the video. Well Mike Tyson was talking about guys other than Sugar Ray Leonard. Mike was not Leonard. Duran had nothing to say against Benitez or Hearns, and he hit Hearns, and did that change Hearns plan? No.. decent right. Ray fought differently... he was the variable. And he made him quit, which is significant. The whole no mas phrase has taken a life of it's own with other fights.

 

If you talk to Ray Leonard, he would tell you what it means. He absolutely knows Duran would never beat him again after that first fight. I cannot say he knew for sure, but once he fought him the second time, he had Duran's number.

 

We fundamentally disagree here because you believe Ray had a binary choice to run away or not run away. I don't believe Duran gave him that choice in 1st fight. In the 2nd fight Duran was out of shape and unable to impose his will on the more prepared Leonard like he had in the first fight.

 

Bollocks!

He beat a better version of Floyd (SRL) who was at his very best in Montreal, and who, despite the revisionist crap you are proffering, fought exactly the fight he and his coach Angelo planned for.

As the ESB poster and award-winning boxing writer, Toledo Springs (aka @Stonehands89 ) stated in hie excellent article on the "Gods of War"....

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Duran's signature win over Leonard was better than any win on Floyd's resume.

You mentioned one great win.

Not quite.

Maybe only one win over an ATG fighter, but given the age, weight move-up and manner of his victories over Moore and Barkley, they also qualify as great wins. Combine that with his reign at LW and the footage of the man, and he's a very reasonable pick for a top 10 spot.

 

One of the best posts I've ever read here. The media, especially before the internet, was all consumer driven. They decided what to tell us and not tell us.

This idea that Leonard had a binary choice to stand and trade with Duran or box and move against Duran is completely and totally fabrication.

 

I am not the one making the excuse. You are