Is Earnie Shavers a harder hitter than George Foreman?

Especially because he was not a great finisher. Because of those long heavy arms, he had difficulty putting punches together, and when he moved in for the kill if a single shot wasn't utterly crippling, of course he was prone to having his arms tied up, causing him to quickly wear down.

Max Baer, for all his insane power, wasn't a finisher in the class of Louis either. One could get between those broad shoulders inside his power shots.

Guys like Louis, Patterson and Tyson could really put them together, and Foreman of course would simply shove guys around and physically place them into position.

There can be a clear distinction between power punchers and knockout artists.

 

I very heartily recommend it. Any feedback about those ten complete rounds would be extremely interesting to read. It's good to compare to Foreman-Peralta I, or Frazier-Jerry Quarry II. These guys could box with some skill. They weren't strictly one dimensional. No, they weren't Zora Folley or Patterson at his most skilled, but in retirement, Ali spoke well of how good Shavers could be.

 

This is something Lyle emphasized very strongly in no uncertain terms, that Earnie was indeed a very smart and sharp puncher with some excellent placement when not fatigued.

Publications like KO Magazine rated his intelligence as a perfect 5.0 compared to Holmes at 4.5 prior to their rematch. Shavers would've been a highly capable analyst, as Marciano proved to be in his own match descriptions. (Jerry Quarry was on a different level of course, and he never should've been forced into boxing. JQ was advanced degree material, and always a calm, pleasant commentator with drinking buddy Tom Brookshire. Floyd Patterson was also calm, but a bit too quiet. Norton, on the other hand, could behave as if he was told he had to fight Foreman again.)

 

Agree with all points.

JQ was an excellent commentator and did a great Ali impersonation atop that. Lol.

We all know the thunderous right hand Earnie landed on Ali in round 2 of their fight - which, in a delayed reaction, sent Ali stuttering back into and holding on to the ropes.

Huge punch that caught Ali while he was dancing, beginning to loosen up.

Earnie timed him, pulled the trigger perfectly and landed right on the button.

In itself, it was a notably fast punch also, imo - another thing Earnie could lose a bit later in a fight due to fatigue - hand speed.

Much was made about Ali “duping” Shavers after that punch, causing Earnie to delay what might’ve been a crucial, fight ending follow up.

I’ve always viewed that perception as somewhat exaggerated if applicable at all.

It was Ali after all, who could not only take a huge shot but recover very quickly also.

Earnie was fighting very smart, with a view to box 15 rounds if necessary, which he of course did, still landing sharp punches in the very later rounds - his pacing mitigating the usual effects that fatigue had on him later in fights.

After the right hand bomb, Earnie’s actual follow up was brilliant anyway.

Ali went to the ropes and Shavers picked his punches perfectly - landing more thunderous punches, basically everything he threw, including digging a hard left to the body - Earnie was no dope -

Ali moved off the ropes in no time - if he had stayed there it would’ve been suicide.

Contrast that to the amount of time Ali was able to lay on the ropes against Foreman in Zaire while George wailed away.

The very short vid below captures the very follow up I’ve just described: -

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To be fair, this was Ali in late 1977. Would you bet on that version of Ali to beat pre-Zaire Foreman? I sure wouldn’t. Nor do I think Shavers gives Zaire Ali much trouble. Foreman was far better than Shavers.

 

Acorn Earnie Shavers was a sharper and more explosive puncher than Foreman for sure. His often underrated hand speed, weight shifting, leverage, and timing could send a jolt through an opponent's body from head to toe. Shavers had big hands with bony knuckles, a stocky build with big shoulders, and slashed through the air with huge, fast punches that could probably anger a gorilla.

In terms of the sheer damage he could dish out, you don't even need to pick apart quotes, the visuals make it very clear Shavers had frightening power. Right up there with other devastating hitters such as Baer, Wilder, Zhang, etc. They aren't great finishers and lack proper fundamentals and fluidity, but they have the talent and body mechanics to hurt anyone they hit clean and the results speak for themselves. When Shavers landed that infamous right hand on Holmes, he looked like he got shot and I was genuinely worried Holmes died in the ring. Just collapsed immediately with his legs turning it jelly. He hit Roy Williams so hard scrambling his brain that Williams collapsed a few seconds after Shavers nailed him.


Big George Foreman... probably the first guy many think of when you say "slugger/brawler". He was bringing many ingredients that made him so formidable: His powerful frame, iron chin, complete and total fearlessness to walk down his opponents aggressively even shrugging off bombs, his underrated accuracy targeting the nose/kidney/temple/solar plexus etc. He would combine rough street tactics (shoving, framing, grappling, etc) combined with the sweet science (parrying, guard manipulation). This made him a pretty unique boxer and a daunting task to deal with if you shared the ring with him and I haven't even addressed his power yet.

Caldwell explains the difference between the two well with this painful analogy: Shavers was like a guy taking a sledgehammer and slamming it on each of your individual toes one at a time. The pain surges through your whole body overloading the pain receptors. Foreman it was like having a refrigerator fall on top of you. Shavers was sharper and more explosive and could turn your lights out with a devastating blow or demoralizing combinations that make your head spin (and Shavers was pretty heavy handed too with bony knuckles). Foreman used his sheer mass, tremendous arm strength, and big hands to just bludgeon you to death. Every punch was like a battering ram: wide surface area and lacking in any sort of subtlety or cleverness, but caused tremendous widespread damage.

The biggest difference as others said, Foreman was the better overall boxer, which is saying a lot because he could beat pretty crude himself. He had an amazing jab, great body shots, balance, timing, could cut the ring off, etc. Although Shavers had sharp jab when he bothered to use it and strong left hook, he mostly favored his right side and wasn't nearly the 2-fisted overwhelming presence Foreman was. Most importantly, Foreman was a MUCH better finisher, making him the more "dangerous" puncher.

While Shavers may have hit harder, Foreman's shots did more pulverizing damage due to how big and heavy handed he was. Just look at how the heavybags looked after his workouts or the damage he did to George Chuvalo. Foreman also generated a crazy amount of force behind each punch, able to send guys sprawling or stumbling with glancing arm punches. He lifted Joe Frazier off the canvas with a single uppercut. If he didn't box, Foreman would be an amazing power lifter or football player.

 

Shavers was such a cumbersome finisher, especially if he'd already gone a few rounds. Baer could be a bit limited in his repertoire too. Your other examples were brutally efficient finishers. Liston was pretty dang efficient too as was Lewis. Others too obviously.