Is Ezzard Charles a great heavyweight?

But he beat Elmer Ray and Joe Baksi before he fought Walcott. Either side of cleaning out the lightheavyweights Charles was beating up all the heavyweights too. He beat them all up. Big small, short and tall.

As I said before a light-heavyweight then was still a type heavyweight. They just had a belt for the lighter ones. But the lighter ones were beating the heavier ones too.

 

Yeah but in the modern era it is artificial. What can be achieved now is beyond the way greatness was assessed before.

A super heavyweight sized athlete never was so functional at boxing without being artificially enhanced.

It used to be that in order to be functional as a fighter there was a natural limit where size just cancelled itself out beyond a point. They had those sized guys. It just didn’t work until the science improved.

Now that it’s here, we have fighters who never could exist before. So the limit has changed. It’s a new artificial species.

If they were forced to train and diet only under old school methods you would not get many world class boxers over 230 today. Certainly not enough for a whole division. And hardly any of them good enough to beat classic sized heavyweight who today languish at a class called cruiserweight...which is really old heavyweight.

The Amateurs did the right thing. They have no cruiserweight. It’s called heavyweight. Like it should be,

 

He fought below 190 lbs when he won the title. Charles fought above 175 at HW

Patterson was a LHW fighting heavyweights, I don't see what is the difference between them.

What makes late 1950s better than late 1940s? It's not like Patterson beat Liston, the best fighter of that era. Charles was undisputed and dominant champion, Patterson lost his title twice.

 

Patterson weighed 190 against johansson in his peak, and he was a top guy even in the late 60s and early 70s he did beat bonavena,cooper,chuvalo,machen,was robbed against quarry. Stop trolling

 

Cool, Charles weghed 184 lbs against Joe Louis. Staggering 6 pounds difference between them.

But sure, I am just trolling.

 

Charles was clearly past his prime against Louis, he was in his prime at 175, stop talking nonsenses..you are comparing a guy who fought at lhw when he was very young and he was skin and frame at 175, and the other one(Charles) was 100% developed in his prime weight at 175

 

What? Charles was definitely in his prime against Louis. What the **** are you talking about? It's one of his best wins, no matter what weight you look at.

 

Very good post and point. It should be said that the loss to Ray was a bit controversial as well. The Ring had him winning "handily" and AP had him edging it by a round.

So he was in his 30's and arguably past his prime when he recorded his first clear loss at HW, to the very good Walcott.

In terms of wins over ranked opponents he certainly has a case. 12 in his prime and 20 all in all by your count, with the vast majority of losses (arguably all) coming after his prime. Are there more than 3-4 that beat those numbers?

And how many have done as well past their prime against a prime ATG as Charles did against Rocky?

What he lacks are the really big wins. Louis is a huge name, of course, but old and rusty. Walcott is probably top 20, but they split the series with Walcott scoring the only KO victory. You could possibly argue that both were closest to their primes in the two Charles won, but the first three took place within a year. The last one seemed like it could have gone either way, though, while the two Charles won seemed to have been less controversial.

Had Charles been given the decision in that one and the one against Ray and retired after regaining the title he'd be something 16-1 against ranked opposition and the first two time champion. That should have been enough for a top 10 spot, I'd say.

I think he has a good argument for that as it is.

 

They all fought a lot of guys at HW, as HWs themselves, and they were all ranked at HW (edit: not Lesnevich), so I don't see a problem with that. You also had guys like Conn, Mauriello, Moore, Pastrano and Johnson being highly ranked HWs in the 40's and 50's. It was common in those decades.