Is Frazier's chin overrated?

Frazier had an underrated chin IMO

 

Not to be critical or a smart a** but for threads such as these, it's probably a good idea for the OP to state what they think the general rating is before asking if it's overrated or underrated.

I myself couldn't say for sure how Joe's chin is generally rated - I've read from average all the way to great. I personally firmly rate Joe's chin as very good if not great (and I don't necessarily preclude great) - and his chin might poke him into being great if we're including the ability to take a big hit (arise if applicable) get back on his bike and remain completely viable = recuperative powers.

Given my own, subjective high rating, I haven't really read anyone overrate Joe, but I've certainly read Joe being somewhat underrated - and that underrating often comes up in fantasy H2H matches, vs, say, Marciano or Tyson, in order to give the latter fighters, the edge. Joe suffered 10 KDs in his career, sounds a bit high but 8 of those were at the hands of that monster, George Foreman.

I strongly believe that if Ali himself took those exact same shots that Joe did in Jamaica, he would've been pushing it to have survived as long as Joe did. Foreman gave Joe absolutely no breathing space to recover from one crushing KD to the next...and yet, there was Joe still standing at the end. Unreal.

 

Bugner of all people had Frazier pretty hurt and it might have been interesting if the round had more left in it. He looked a bit rattled.

 

I’d love to have seen him go a few rounds with Shavers. Of course I’d back him to win but I wonder if he would have hit the deck like Larry or got shaken to the bones of his bones like Ali.

Mind you having said all that, getting knocked down by Shavers is no biggie, simply an occupational hazard when facing him…it’s not exactly big news. I hear he hit like a Silverback on steroids. It’s whether you can get up from such a blow that’s important.

Anyway I’d say Frazier’s chin was good, not cast iron, but good enough. Unless your name is George Foreman of course.

 

George Foreman was one of the hardest heavyweight punchers of all time. Some claim he is THE hardest puncher of all time! That is no reflection on Joe Frazier's chin which was solid as most.

 

I remember reading a description that said the Foreman fights made Frazier’s chin look worse than it really was, and perhaps the Ali fights made it look better than it was.

Overall I would say he had a solid chin. He was somewhat vulnerable in the opening rounds (Bonavena, Ramos, Ali 2, Foreman) but had tremendous stamina.

 

Yeah, I think Bugner perhaps wobbled Frazier more notably than Ali ever did.

Here's Frazier vs Bugner, first fight back after the destruction in Jamaica, 6 months prior.

Round 10 was quite the see saw.

50:30 - Frazier drops Bugner with a single, hellacious left hook. Frazier mercifully withholds follow up punches while Bugner is frozen on his feet for a moment before falling.

IF Frazier knew what he was going to get hit with about 50 secs later, he might've reconsidered his charitable act. Lol. Would Frazier had let Ali off the hook (pun intended) given the same connection, effect and follow up opportunity - I think not. 2nd Lol.

51:20 - A Bugner right hand badly buckles Frazier with just 10 seconds left in the round.

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In terms of his punching potential, I think Frazier's style and relentless pressure perhaps brought out the best we saw in Bugner. Overall, it was actually a terrific, fast paced fight. Bunger took some heavy and protracted punishment in there, but he really fought back hard. Did himself very proud.

This is a still photograph of another right hand landed by Bugner during the fight. Looks like it has some steam behind it. I used to think this was the punch that buckled Frazier, but it doesn't quite match up to the live vision.

[url]https://www.ebay.com/itm/353179939288[/url]

 

Ali also badly hurt Frazier in the 2nd round of their 2nd fight, didn't the round end early ? Or the referee thought the bell had rang ? I can't remember the exact details. But I remember thinking that Frazier had been a bit lucky, that he had a beneficial reprieve when he was quite visibly shaken.

 

Bugner stated Frazier had the best chin out of anybody he faced.
Best chin: “Smokin” Joe Frazier. He was so tough and I landed everything I had in that fight. He dropped me in round 10 with a huge left hook and I remember looking at Andy Smith (manager) who gave me the signal to get up. I got to my feet and suddenly Joe left himself wide open and I caught him with a perfect right hand on the button. His leg went from under him and his knee almost touched the canvas.

Other than that moment Joe took everything I had for 12 rounds. He had a really good chin.

[url]Best I Faced: Joe Bugner - The Ring (ringtv.com)[/url]

 

Not a huge Frazier fan (not one at all TBH), but he was only blown out by Foreman (no shame in that), and stopped against Ali before the last round in a fight that the winner wanted to quit.

I don't call that an overrated chin. No one else really dented him

I don't think being hurt alone says "bad chin", being hurt and unable to recover does. Frazier always pressed, even hurt

 

He was only stopped by two men, 3 times.
Foreman had a almost perfect stylistic
advantage on Frazier, if one could
draw up a perfect style and physicality
to beat Frazier, Foreman would be it.
Foreman stopped him twice, though
Frazier slightly adjusted his fight plan
the 2nd fight, he couldn't adjust his
physical make up. So same result.
Ali did it in Manila, but really that was
Eddie Futch actually caring about
Frazier's life, and future well being,
Futch did the right thing. Though
Frazier hated it, and didn't talk to
Futch for awhile.

So Two of the greatest heavyweights in history
and one of it's greatest punchers with the prefect
physical make up to beat him.
Personally in my opinion his chin was just fine.
It's not like Mathis Sr, Ellis, Bonevena or Foster
seriously hurt or stopped him.
Unlike Lewis who was stopped by two fighters
that were not that special in the prime of
his career.
Or Louis who was stopped by Schelling in his
prime , and dropped by multiple fighters , and
Conn, who was a natural Lt.heavy and had Louis
reeling around the ring he was that badly hurt.
Frazier didn't have the chin of Ali (Who did?)
But his chin is somehow UNDERRATED on
this site.

 

We saw the difference when he faced Ali, more of a poet in the ring, than a puncher, and Foreman which ended quickly

Even Ali managed to hurt Frazier in fight two early

and in fight three, hurt him early

Joe just takes too much punishment in fights and doesnt match up well with fighters such as Foreman, Tyson, and Holmes

 

a weak chin for the division is how i feel, really the guy didn't have much business above light-heavyweight and Patterson could really eat some bombs. totally agree he was an odd combination of ATG recovery and an above-average chin. i say above-average again because he was fighting guys way stronger than himself often.

 

Don't forget Ali shook Frazier in round one of Manila, Ali went damn berserk after witnessing it.

 

Thanks Swag.

Bugner was/is a big guy and would have something on his shots when properly intended and there’s also the “every dog has its day” concept. That one punch stood out the most but I believe Bugner got Frazier’s attention on a few other occasions also.

Bugner was more aggressive and throwing more than usual in that fight - thereby increasing the odds of landing a sweet one.

However it came to pass or however people had Bugner’s power rubber stamped otherwise. , it can be seen that it was an excellent right hand that he landed on a tiring Frazier who already had his chin punched every which way by Foreman just 6 months prior.