Is Frazier's chin overrated?

Yeah, Ali did wobble Joe with a right hand in round 2 of their second fight.

They had newly installed lights on the ring posts to alert when there was 10 seconds left to go in the round. It was said Perez mistook those lights as indicating the end of the round.

Just me personally but I’d give Joe the benefit of the doubt to have survived the round anyway- given all the rounds fought otherwise (41 in total) when Ali also hurt Joe at times but couldn’t put him down.

 

Foreman destroyed Frazier and Norton who however had some of the best chins around.

 

I would have liked to see him fight Lyle, Shavers and Mac Foster. I think any of those guys could have given him problems, especially Lyle.

 

Maybe if they could’ve got past Quarry (who was demolished twice by Frazier), they would’ve gotten their chance.

 

I understand the infrastructure of contenders sorting it out between themselves per order of merit to some extent so that the “best” rise to the top by way of rating which then makes them eligible for a shot at the title.

However, sometimes certain contenders in question do more sorting out than the Champs themselves (see Patterson’s reign for taking that phenomena to the hilt) or, at the least, certain contenders do more sorting than the more celebrated contenders above them.

And while the Champ/Ex Champ might have the number of the contender doing the sorting (see Frazier vs Quarry), they might not so easily have the numbers of the other contenders that were culled out (Shavers and Lyle).

So a Champs coverage and prevailing over the field can actually be somewhat reduced once they assume the throne or while they’re still hovering near it after the losing the title - as was the case with Frazier.

No aspersions on Joe, but Quarry ultimately ran a nice block on Frazier potentially increasing the breadth of his own competition.

After losing the title, as it played out, Joe’s career more or less turned back in on itself with rematches against Quarry, Ellis, Ali and Foreman - Joe Bugner being the only fresh name added to his resume.

Joe faced Ellis in 75, Ellis having lost to Lyle and then Bugner prior to. Could there have been a window for Frazier to at least have fought Lyle instead of Ellis? - (I understand Lyle lost to Young in Feb 75 - 1 month prior to Frazier vs Ellis) but maybe Frazier vs Lyle in early 75 could’ve been the fight instead - and, in 74, Lyle had beaten two ex victims of Frazier - those being Bonavena and, as already stated, Ellis himself.

 

Interesting how Joe was able to take Ali's best right hands for 15, 12, 14, all going the distance

but in mere seconds, could not withstand Foreman's right hand

Joe didnt really face any big punchers other than George

It would have been interesting to face off with a stylist like Holmes, who could bang with his right hand

Dude's not backing down no matter what Larry throws at him?

Then he's going DOWN for the count!

 

Fighters who have suffered humiliating knockout losses chins' are never overrated on here. Floyd Patterson, Ken Norton, Tommy Hearns, Duran, Tommy Morrison, RJJ... the frequency people pick those fighters to get knocked out in matchups is insane.

 

I think Joe Frazier had a really good chin, but his style was such that he got punched flush in the face an awful lot in his career.

If Frazier was a slick boxer, and wasn't willing to take three shots on the noggin to give one, and boxed more defensively, he may never have gone down at all.

I doubt most heavyweights in history could've taken as many flush punches to the face as Frazier did.

Willingly taking shots to the face in order to land your own is not something you'd recommend.

If Frazier actually had a bad chin, he'd have never won anything.

 

It's also interesting how one hard flush right by Ali totally turned the tables in his fight with Ron Lyle.

It's also interesting how a guy with a known sturdy chin like Jerry Quarry was stumbling all over the ring being beaten to pulp by Ali in their rematch from Ali's right hands.

When Ali planted and landed, he rocked a lot of guys.

Taking them flush, like Frazier did, in all three fights, was a testament to how good his chin was.

Ali carried a lot of guys, and he took it really easy on a bunch, but he never took it easy on Joe Frazier.

 

Ronny was already tired by then.

and while Ali and Holmes had similar size and builds, they are not comparable in temperaments and power

 

In general, probably safe to say that Holmes had a stiffer jab but Ali had a more powerful right. As to temperament, Holmes seemed a calmer fighter. Ali could fight out of sheer rage and hate, which I don't really recall Holmes doing. (late career Holmes was a bit different in temperament, ended up closer to Ali)

Ali was an underrated puncher. He had real solid power in that right when he went for it.

 

"Ronny" shouldn't have come apart with one hard right ... if Ali couldn't punch.

That fight wasn't exactly a whirlwind of activity like the Ali-Frazier fights were.

Ali stopped Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Oscar Bonavena, Jerry Quarry, Jimmy Ellis, Lyle, Cleveland Williams, Floyd Patterson, Zora Folley, Archie Moore ... he could punch "a little."

 

Agreed.

 

None of them could get past Jerry Quarry. So Jerry got Frazier instead.

 

You realize he's faced harder punchers than Holmes right? Including Ali, and Bonavena.