Is Froch's resume now better than Calzaghe's?

Bub,

I can see that you're one of the few people that I can have an honest and objective debate with, regarding Joe.

You've made a very good post.

There's a lot of people like yourself, that have the opinion that Joe wouldn't have made a good 175 fighter. I respect that. However, he's 6ft, he always liked his food, and he was coming down from around 14 stone to make weight. It was always hard for him to make weight, but when he got into his 30's, it became even harder. By the time he fought Manfredo and Kessler, he'd literally had to starve himself to make weight. When he fought Hopkins and Roy, he had great camps, because he ate a lot better.

But besides that, he was toying with the idea of going up to 175 in 2003/2004. He said things such as "I've done all I can at SMW, and I know that I need to move up and go to America, to get the big fights" He also said that he'd be confident of fighting at 175, and he'd have a huge advantage in speed over most guys at the weight. This was said in 2004, before Lacy and Kessler had done anything. Everybody thought that the Mkrtchyan fight was to be his last defence at 168. But then he stayed on and fought Salem and Mario Veit again.


He did try and fight Hopkins in 2002, but that would have been at 168.


Joe's attitude throughout his career was - If a big fight presents itself, I'll take it.


But while ever he was defending his WBO belt in Britain, he was never going to get the opportunity for a big fight.


Simply put, he wasn't prepared to do any groundwork.


He was content doing what he was doing, which was earning decent money defending the WBO.


He admitted that he wouldn't go to America for less money, but for more publicity.


He could have moved up to 175, that was a stronger division, and tried to impress the U.S. public and move up the rankings.


There was nothing stopping him.


There was absolutely no guarantee that he could have fought the likes of Roy at 175, but there was a CHANCE. There was a chance that he could have got people interested in a fight, or he could have found himself in a mandatory spot like Clinton Woods.


But again, while ever he stayed in Britain at 168, there was literally NO CHANCE of him fighting someone like Roy for big money.


At 175, he'd have had a raffle ticket in his hand, hoping to win a prize.


But at 168, he had no ticket.


That's the difference.

I think if he'd have gone to the U.S. in 99, when De Bella had the door open for him, it's possible that he could have fought the likes of Roy and DM etc.

Or if he'd have gone up in 2003, after he couldn't get the Ottke fight, he could potentially have fought Johnson, Tarver and Hopkins earlier.

He could have been there at those times, and it was possible that he could have achieved more than what he did.

It wasn't his fault that the 168 division was weak, especially in the late 90's-early 00's, but that's when he should have made the move.

I appreciate and respect your opinion on this.


But look at Clinton Woods.

Woods managed to fight Roy, Tarver, and Glen Johnson 3 times.


Again, he could have gone up, and made waves in the U.S. like Ricky Hatton did, and the fans and media may have propelled him towards bigger fights. Or alternatively, he could have moved up the rankings.


Also, there were a few other possibilities.


He could have targeted Dariusz M to try and get to Roy, and he could have moved up to 175 in 2003, to become Julio Gonzalez's mandatory challenger. (after Gonzalez had beaten Dariusz M)

General Zod posted information on this last year.

Because Joe had defended his WBO belt numerous times at 168, he would have been moved up to the No.1 position at 175, had he chosen to go there.


So that could have opened many doors for him.


He could potentially have been the WBO 175 champ, looking for decent fights, instead of fighting Jiminez and Pudwell (who was a replacement for Thomas Tate)


Again, nothing was guaranteed, but the opportunities were there.


Lou DeBella, Jay Larkin, Kerry Davis, Ron Borges and Thomas Hauser among others, all wanted to see Joe have meaningful fights in America.


Hindsight is a wonderful thing.


Maybe Joe's career would have turned out better, and maybe it wouldn't have. Nobody knows.


But in my honest opinion, the recognition that he received in 2006, after he'd beaten Lacy, would have come much sooner had he have trodden a different path.

 

Nobody said Kessler was his only valid defense Herol. He had a bunch of those. I was replying to the dude who said that maybe the reason the entire scene was weak was because Calzaghe was so great as to make it appear so.

Now, had he fought the best guys around, or even in his division, I'd be inclined to agree. That would have included prime RJJ(lhw), Hopkins(mw) and I guess, for lack of a better option, Ottke(smw), although Ottke was pretty much doing the same dance as Calzaghe, except he was a few steps ahead in the process..... Had he fought these guys, or even realistic options and beat them all, I'd be more inclined to accept that argument as more than just propaganda.

Robin Reid was nowhere near elite. He was world class though.