Is Fury not dipping for Part II the easiest adjustment any fighter has ever had to make in a rematch

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by andrewa1, Dec 22, 2018.


Has there ever been this easy, obvious, or Central adjustment in rematch history?

  1. Yes (name it in thread)

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No

    3 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    I mean, the only times Wilder bothered Fury at all we're when he dropped him the two times. The only times Wilder dropped Fury was when Fury dipped. Whenever Fury leaned back, kept his height and distance, and whenever he clenched, he owned Wilder.

    You never know, maybe Wilder can catch him with something new next time. But my gut is, if Fury just largely abandons dipping, he can eliminate any punchers chance Wilder has in part II.

    And I honestly can't, at least off the top of my head, think of another adjustment as obvious and as easy to make as this one for fighters engaging in a rematch. Can you?
     
  2. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Loyal Member Full Member

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    Maybe Joe Louis not dropping his left hand after throwing a jab vs Schmeling.

    Or perhaps RJJ abandoning his jab and leading with a left hook instead vs Griffin.

    Both times these guys adapted they KO'ed their opponent inside a round, can we expect Fury to do the same? Would be some feat if he did.
     
  3. Badbot

    Badbot You can just do things. Full Member

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    The first time Fury got dropped was because he bend down and then tried to close the distance between him and Wilder. He wanted to initiate a clinch. But Wilder took a step to the side, controlled Fury's head with his own lead hand and scored the KD.
    It had nothing to do with Fury's "dipping". Wilder did everything perfect and Fury made a mistake.

    What Fury should have done is pivot off to the side or control Wilder with his own lead hand.

    The second KD was a perfect shot from Wilder. He baited Fury with a probing jab and then timed him with the right hand. Fury stood his ground and it cost him the fight. He should have been moving.
     
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  4. Gil Gonzalez

    Gil Gonzalez Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    The adjustment Fury needs to make is to have three Brit judges instead of two robbing Wilder.
     
  5. FartWristedBum

    FartWristedBum I walk this Earth like a bum Full Member

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    Life's not so simple, the dip from Fury is pure muscle memory and saved him multiple times each round from flush right hands. No unlearning it and Fury shouldn't want to.
    The only thing Fury needs is match-sharpness, then he will be one step ahead of a crude slugger like Wilder for the full 12.
    Dude won the first fight anyway.
     
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  6. AlwaysFirst

    AlwaysFirst Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Fury couldn’t been better and Wilder couldn’t been worse in the first fight, if Wilder make adjustments Fury will be KO’d in the rematch.
     
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  7. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    For Part One: Yes, "he bend down" is equal to dipping. Whatever you want to call it, but he was "bending down" way too much and Wilder eventually timed him. He was initiating a clinch from a vulnerable position, bent over. He is clearly vulnerable when giving up his height in that manner.

    For Part Two: Yes, he should have been moving, BACKWARD. As it was, he was moving. The problem was he wasn't moving backward, he moved his head down. I.E. Dipping.

    In both cases he got KD'd, his head was considerably lower than it should have been. I guess you can try to call it something else and or excuse it away, but the fact remains those are the only times he was kd'd and they appear to be available to adjustments by not dipping (or bending over, or whatever you want to call it) nearly as much.
     
  8. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Disagree. He hasn't used it as much in other fights. He can train himself to do it substantially less. Sure it saved him at times from Wilder. But it got him caught two very important times. And whenever he clinched from a tall position or retreated backward from a tall position, both things that also "saved" him repeatedly in the fight, Wilder was never able to catch him. And I don't think he ever would. There's no reason for him not to try to minimize that style to deny Wilder his best opportunity to get the KO.
     
  9. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    This is blather. How could Wilder not have been worse and Fury not have been better? If anything, more evidence points to the reverse being true. Wilder had much more recent high level experience, and Fury lost 100 lbs in one year, and hadn't had a high level opponent in over 3 years.

    And how can Wilder adjust to get the KO next time? He can work on timing Fury's dips better, I agree with you there. But, my overall point is that that is in Fury's control. If Fury makes the adjustment and denies this opportunity for Wilder, he really doesn't have anything that worked in the first fight that could work better next time. Game, set, match, for Fury.
     
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  10. andrewa1

    andrewa1 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    Good examples. Yes, Louis is probably the best adjustment example ever, I should have remembered that. I don't see Fury koing Wilder in one round, its just not his style. But I do think he can get a late ko if he fixes this issue and makes incremental general improvements.

    I usually like your fight analysis breakdowns. Do you agree this is the biggest adjustment for either fighter to make in a rematch? What other adjustments do you think both fighters should make?
     
  11. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Thought about Dipps the other day ironically and wondered if these were still available from back in the day ?


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    Fury should avoid the big Dips for sure ,cost him the win.
     
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  12. miniq

    miniq AJ IS A BODYBUILDING BUM Full Member

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    Fury had to use head and body movement in the 2nd half of the fight because his feet still aren't up to speed.

    Wilder can't change anything. wilder actually fought his arse off. If wilder wants to be more patient and box better like he says he will gas or just get outpointed even worse

    Fury is going to smash him again in the rematch at 100%

    Fury just has to not take his eye off the ball. The only reason he got caught by Wilder in round 12 is because he hit Wilder with a nice right hand and thought he was safe in that moment but Wilder came back immediately.

    easy work.
     
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  13. Grinder

    Grinder Dude, don't call me Dude Full Member

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    In some ways Wilder was exposed by a Fury who was out of high level boxing for years. In other ways, Fury fought one of the greatest comeback fights in history.

    I can't see Wilder winning a rematch. He was easily outfoxed by Fury and when he had him out in the 12th he couldn't finish the job.

    That being said, he does have the power to hurt anyone and no-one is going to stand and trade with him, meaning a decision rather than a KO.
     
  14. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why a 6'9" fighter thinks he needs to dip in the first place I don't know.
     
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  15. FartWristedBum

    FartWristedBum I walk this Earth like a bum Full Member

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    Fair enough andrewa1, but I would argue that clinching doesn't 'save' him at all to the same degree since Wilder has no inside game, so that's the first point. Secondly, retreating at range did for Fury against Cunningham so it isn't the 'cure all' tactic you claim it to be.
    I definitely disagree that Fury can unlearn such an instinctual move but even if he can to a degree, I don't think it would aid him in avoiding right hands from Wilder in a rematch.
    It's my opinion that a match fit Fury simply has better feet and more energy to move his torso, his ducking and diving made Wilder miss very badly numerous times in the first fight and so shouldn't be 'trained out' of Fury since such a thing would be a waste of time in my view.
    I hope you can recognise that here is at least an argument for a reason to NOT minimize his ducking, even if you think it's detrimental.