Is Fury the new Ike Ibeabuchi?

You said Fury was known for 'showing up out of nowhere'.

What I'm getting at is that he was very well known prior to fighting Wlad for the title.

 

This thread is a train wreck.

 

1. AJ was a massive favourite before the Wlad fight: he was 27.5, 18-0 with 18 KO's, active and fighting at home against a 41 year old, 17 month inactive and defeated in his last fight ex-champion. He was expected to blow Wlad away but AJ won by the skin of his teeth.

Fury was a massive underdog before the Wlad fight: he was 27.25, 24-0 with 18 KO's, active but fighting away from home against a 39.5 year old, active champion who had won his last 22 fights. And Fury won virtually every round.

2. Why was Wlad gunshy? Had he been KO'd recently? Or was it because he was worried about getting countered or gassing out, believed that Fury would slow down late and thought the cards would be rigged in his favour in his adopted hometown? Wlad was criticised for not pulling the trigger against Haye but Haye was dominated regardless because there are levels. He didn't pull the trigger enough against the far smaller and less powerful Eddie Chambers and KO'd him in the last few seconds when he could have KO'd him early. It was typical of post-Brewster prime Wlad, even when Steward was shouting at him demanding that he throw more punches. He didn't have a good explanation for why he didn't KO AJ, in my view he thought "I might get stopped if I really go for it so I'll play it safe and win a decision" but this was an insane miscalculation because 1. Wlad wouldn't get a decision in Britain against AJ 2. The plan risked AJ catching a second wind and taking Wlad out and 3. AJ's legs and reflexes had gone in the 6th, he was there for the taking.

3. AJ is only difficult to outmaneuver in clinches for smaller men: Fury has a 30 lbs weight advantage, his longer arms will allow him to wrap AJ up and headlock him from further away (even the shorter, same weight Pulev was doing this) and his height advantage allows him to leverage more of his weight on shorter opponents. AJ hasn't fought a really good inside fighter: Povetkin was completely nullified for 12 rounds by Wlad's holding and AJ started having most success against Povetkin when he used his height and reach to outbox him from range. The likes of Pulev and Wlad have minimal inside games beyond clinching and Parker wasn't permitted to fight on the inside by the referee. When AJ exchanged with Ruiz on the inside he got TKO'd. Show me the fight where AJ beats an opponent of any quality while often fighting from point blank range. Fury fought on the inside a lot to good effect in Chisora 1, against Cunningham and against Wallin after he got the cut and had to change the gameplan. Wilder is not known for his inside game because he prefers to use his height and reach but even he showed some inside fighting ability against Duhaupas, where he outmuscled him in the clinch and landed lots of hooks and uppercuts. Fury can throw fast combinations when he wants to (Johnson, Cunningham, Chisora, Hammer) but against his best opponents he has followed different gameplans: jabbing and countering on the backfoot or carefully moving forward with jabs and right hands and smothering and mauling on the inside. AJ's combinations (which he doesn't throw on the inside anyway) result in him gassing after one highly exertive round (Wlad, Pulev). And ultimately, being a good inside fighter requires you to have a good engine, chin and heart: Fury has AJ beaten on all of those counts as well as size, skill and experience.

4. The fight of the century was a boring clinch-fest by Ali and he could have easily been disqualified in the rematch by a referee who wanted to enforce the rules. Wlad clearly did try to KO his opponents even when using negative tactics because only 8/64 of his wins involved his opponent going the distance. Conversely, 8/42 (counting Holyfield 1) of Lewis's wins went the distance. It wasn't Wlad's style to go to war because you sustain more damage (possibly resulting in medical conditions like Parkinson's and a shorter career) and risk being KO'd and this attitude played a big part in why he put together 22 wins in a row (18 defences) the longest of any modern heavyweight champion and had much more longevity than Lewis.

 

5. Two mismatch tune ups before the big fight don't mean you are back to your best lol, most fighters can't ever get back to their best after 2.5 years of inactivity entailing drug abuse, morbid obesity and suicidal depression. It's a historical one-off and we don't know if Fury is where he would be had he never been inactive, he probably isn't. It's ridiculous that you say "Wilder wasn't in the rematch from the start" but claim that Fury was 100% in the first fight, just as good as the Fury who fought Wlad. Fury hurt Wilder late in the first fight yes but he was fighting a low volume fight on the backfoot. In the rematch he's on the front foot, fitter and 15 lbs heavier and putting full power in to the shots against a clearly shaken Wilder. If AJ spent almost the whole fight pot-shotting Pulev from the back foot then he wouldn't have come close to KO'ing him. Fury's power is hugely underrated, a few haters and morons on this forum still claim he is pillowfisted lol. Fury was able to mash Chisora's face up and stop him in 2nd gear and drop and stop Hammer: both highly durable fighters. He stopped 210 lbs Cunningham, despite no one else managing to do so over 40 fights. And he KO'd Marcelo Luiz cold when he was at his freshest, a feat which has not been emulated by the many well-known fighters who've fought him. He also turned pro when he was 20, had he turned pro at 24 like AJ he would have had a 96% KO ratio before he fought Wlad, with only K. Johnson likely to avoid being stopped. As we know he broke Malik Scott's eardrum in sparring years ago, so doing the same to Wilder in a real fight doesn't surprise me. And although Fury did hurt, drop and batter Wilder, he was stopped on his feet. The first Ortiz fight proved Wilder is tough and has good powers of recovery but the Fury fight didn't refute this as Fury kept the pressure constantly on him from the 3rd and didn't allow him space to breathe or time to recover.


6. Any elite fighter clearly doesn't include Anthony Joshua then. You just won't give Fury his credit for making Wlad gunshy because you don't like him, you're probably one of these people who think the midget American HW's of the past would have a chance against physically and technically superior modern SHW's. Wlad and Vitali also could have fought Fury earlier but they weren't interested, hoping he would lose and thus be removed from the equation without them having to risk fight him. If and when Fury stands AJ on his head you'll say something like "AJ's a chinny bodybuilder with a non-existent gas tank and poor survival skills, Joe Louis would have KO'd him in one round".


7. Quality wins matter more than quantity. Wlad had 18 consecutive defences when Fury schooled him in Germany, Wilder had 10 when Fury smashed him in America. If he destroys AJ as well he will have completely dominated all of the long-reigning rival champions of his era, all of whom are 6'6+, highly athletic and skilled KO artists. Fury has a screw lose unlike the very stable defence king Wlad so it's pointless to complain about his 2.5 years of inactivity and self-destruction after he dethroned Wlad, it was always going to be this way (he may do the same again if he loses to Wilder or beats AJ, who knows). Haye's ducking and COVID also haven't helped the situation but his career isn't over at 33 so it's premature to pass judgement. Had Fury not come back from the pits of despair it would have been an unparalleled waste of talent.

 

28-2-1 K. Johnson, 119-108 (240 lbs, world title challenger, beat fellow challengers Sosnowski, KO'd Leapai and KO'd Pianeta)
25-5 Cunningham in America, 7th round KO (210 lbs, 2x Cruiserweight champion, most notably beat cruiser champ G. Jones in America, 2x cruiser champ Wlodarczyk in Poland and KO'd the joint longest reigning cruiser champ Huck in Germany)
17-3 Hammer, 8th round retirement (248 lbs, heavyweight Junior World Champion, beat Hunter and Teper in the amateurs, K. Johnson, Teper and KO'd Price in the pros)

Many don't rate these wins because these former contenders stuck around for too long and became opponents or journeymen. But they were very good wins at the time.

 

4 of Chisora's 11 official losses had a lot to do with boxing politics. K. Johnson, Cunningham and Hammer all would have been top 20 or top 10 at the time, far more obscure names were back then and they were all beaten in some kind of title eliminator.

 

Byrd and Tua aren't collectively that much worse, as scalps go, than Old Wlad and Wilder (2x, sort of). Don't get me wrong; Fury is more accomplished. But the gap isn't enormous from a purely resume perspective.

 

Fury isn't an overrated boogeyman.

 

OK, but do you really believe he was innocent?
That he did not terrorize people, from the restaurant/steak knives incident to the prostitute debacle, to crippling that young boy for life, to that vicious damage to a sparring partner described, to actually seeming to believe that he was some kind of President...

 

Dont believe everything you read my friend. Most of what yo.u say isnt reality. Ike had problems he had a quick temper too. But did anyone try to help him?? Cushner & co just saw the $$$ signs.
The only person that Ike would listen to was the late great Curtis Cokes he made him the great fighter he was. What sent him over the edge was the way he was treated being held in jail for months,heavily sedated because they were scared of what he MAY do. All the while badgering him to cop a plea & he'd be back to boxing soon.
When he finally agreed to plead no contest, what happened? That judge slapped the max sentence of 5-30 years on him. Ike swore he never touched that hooker or the cops no one was hurt or touched at all. He needed help not imprisonment. Anyone treated that way would not be mentally stable

 

Kirk Johnson was robbed blind by the tag team of John Ruiz & Joe Cortez. Ruiz acting, faking low blows deserved an Oscar. plus Cortez needed to get his eyes checked or his honesty one 0of the other. Kirk won the WBA title that night but was wrongfully DQ'd instead. He lost heart & was never the same fighter again

 

OK, maybe this is true-or maybe it is what Ike claimed.
With all the evidence of him being delusional & sometimes violent-you admit he needed help, how do you know he was innocent?
Or even if he was in touc enough with reality that he knew what he did?
Unless everything many wrote about him like him seemingly believing he was some sort of President was false, it seems with his mental problems you cannot just take his word for it.

 

I was there from the day he walked into Curtis Home of Champions gym saying "I'm going to be HW Champ do you want part of it ": lol
The President NN was started by his first manager Scott Sherman because of Pres Ike Eisenhower. Copied the phrase I LIKE IKE !!
Ike was no choirboy but neither was he the monster some say he was. He was a man that needed help

 

Can take you seriously now that I know you're a far weather fan who used to think fury sucked