Is Gene Tunney underrated on P4P and LHW lists?

Except he was not loughran. Loughran arguably had the better skills and better jab. In fact, I think so. Loughran also proved himself against better opposition than tunney did at 175lb. Listen, I think Gene Tunney was an ATG fighter, better than Loughran overall. But Tunney in no way has the resume to be # 1 all time lightheavyweight. I also think some 175lb champions of latter eras look slightly better than him..as boxing technique continued to develop.

Also, can you name me one top 175lb puncher Gene Tunney beat? I can name quite a few for Loughran.




As for Tunney-Loughran fight


(Philadelphia Inquirer) claimed the opposite result.

LOUGHRAN WINS BY RALLY AFTER BEING FLOORED BY TUNNEY
Tommy Outboxes Gene in Sensational Bout After Weathering a Stormy First Round. Local Boy's Great Finish in 7th and 8th Sessions Thrills 22,000 Fans
By PERRY LEWIS

RISING from the ashes of defeat, groggy and spent, Tommy Loughran, middleweight pride of Philadelphia, fought his way to a hair-line decision over Gene Tunney, former light heavyweight champion of America, in eight vicious rounds at the Phillies' tall park last night.
Early in the first round Loughran stepped into a vicious right lead as he was coming in. Tunney's big fist landed flush on the point of the Loughran jaw, and down went the local youth as though tagged with an axe. The fallen gladiator was hovering on the verge of unconciousness, groggy and looking out upon a sea of 22,000 faces with glazed eyes, but, nevertheless, he assayed to arise without taking a count.
Had Loughran succeeded in standing erect, he would undoubtedly have been knocked out then and there. His knees, however, were just clear of the floor when he heard the frenzied cries of his seconds to stay down for the count. Tommy heeded, and after taking the full count, arose to achieve ultimate victory, the most notable triumph of his dazzling career.

Landed Cleaner Blows
For Loughran won: not by a wide margin, for the fight was as close as the newspaper persons parked to Bay nothing of packed, around the ringside. He won because he landed the cleaner and sharper blows. He won because of his amazing rally in the seventh and eighth rounds. He won by virtue of his superior ringcraft and masterly defense. To those far removed from the ringside it must have seemed that Tunney was handing Loughran a lacing. He did punch Tommy hard a number of times, but many blows which, from a distance appeared to reach the target, were either blocked, were short or they simply brushed the Philadelphian without doing any real harm.
Loughran entered the ring weighing 163 pounds, and Tunney was just ten pounds heavier and looked it. And Gene did not fail to take every advantage of this added poundage. He was on top of the Philadelphian all of the time, lying on him and wearing him down. Nevertheless, Loughran seldom failed to completely tie the New Yorker up at close quarters, and at the end of the bout his exhaustion was due more to the mauling Tunney gave him than to the gloves he had stopped.

Loughran Lands Cleaner Punches
Although Loughran landed often and hard on his opponent, pecking away at Tunney's mouth with that rapier-like left jab and finding a target for many rights, the former champion was at no time in danger. The Philadelphian has not yet developed enough of a punch to do more than annoy such a boxer as Tunney, but be did land many more cleaner and sharper blow's than his adversary.
On the other hand, Loughran was always in danger. Tunney is a hard hitter, sufficiently hard to knock a Loughran out of the ball park could he have landed. That one murderous punch in the first round right to the button is a case in point. It was per-best blow Tunney landed. It was perfectly timed and delivered with the force of a pile driver, nnd Loughran could not have taken another one like it at any time during the action.
To the end Gene tried manfully to get that right to the jaw again, and although he realized early that Loughran could not hurt him seriously, he could not make the grade, all of which is very eloquent testimony of the soundness of the Philadelphian's defense.

Tunney's Mouth Damaged
Longhran's left jab was working in all its pristine glory, which is recording a pageful. Early in the bout the local left drew blood from the big boy's mouth, and to the end the damaged featured dripped gore. Every time Tunney's seconds succeeded in cleaning up their warrior's face, Loughran was waiting out there with a few more left jabs to mess things up again.
As the scrivener recorded the thing, Tunney carried the first and the sixth rounds. The third and the fifth were even. Loughran had a mere shade the best of the second and fourth and thus they went into the seventh all even. It was the local lad's dazzling rally in those last two rounds which entitled him to a hair-line decision.
Where Loughran found the strength and stamina to finish as he did is a mystery. It was the hardest fight he ever had. He had been knocked flat in the first round. For six rounds he had been waging a grueling battle against a man ten pounds heavier than he, and a man who knew best how to use those ten pounds. And yet, Loughran had enough left to go out in the last two rounds and edge under the wire a winner.

The Boxer Won
It was simply a case of a little man and a master boxer, but lacking in a dangerous punch, in there against a big man with a wallop but of far less boxing skill. The little man avoided a punch which would have been certain to ruin him and meantime scored enough himself to win.
He outboxed his big rival.
Probably in a longer bout Loughran would be beaten down and knocked out by Tunney. But last night the boys were boxing eight rounds.
The biggest crowd of the outdoor season jammed its way into the ball park to see Loughran and Tunney maul each other, and for a few minutes it seemed certain that all hands would be disappointed. The weather was so threatening that the promoters elected to put on the windup before the Chaney-France melee, and then, when a few drops fell as Brown and Pal Moran were mingling, they shortened that brawl to six rounds and they went ahead with the heavy stuff.



Interesting how this article calls Loughran the "boxer with far more skill" and categorizes tunney as more of a "big man with a wallop"

 

This was the era of the great depression which is why Walcott had to do what he did to survive, my parents lived through the depression (showing my age here) and they remember having to scrounge for every little cent and starving for a meal they said the depression only ended when the war started. It is simply not fair to Judge Walcott on his fights in this era if this was all we ever saw of Walcott then we could but the real Walcott was the man that fought Louis, Marciano and Charles and this is the Walcott that is remembered.

 

Which is not when Tunney was active, so thus irrelevant to this discussion.

All of them were coming off bigger/better wins than Godfrey had yet to score as well.

You can manipulate them even easier than that if you beat the fighter in question 2 out of 3, as Renault did to Godfrey.

 

"It was widely understood in Philly that Godfrey's first two matches with Renault were "smellers" and his "foul-outs" were "ordered."- Chuck Hasson

Yes..it's easier to score big wins when your actually allowed to try your best. Godfrey was not.

But he was active in 1928. He fought Gooftrooper Tom Heeney that year. Then retired..with Tunney, Godfrey as two outstanding hall of fame contenders # 1 and # 2.

 

Punchy..Thanx for your great insight. The 30s was tough huh? :shock: Your parents were very tough and strong willed people for enduring that.

 

Boxrec had initially had it as a newspaper win for Tunney before changing it to a win for Loughran.

So does that mean the Loughran fans had cried to get the result changed in the first place?

 

I didn't realize Loughran had a fan base

Maybe I will send them the write up from the Philadelphia Inquirer and perhaps they will at least rightfully change it to a newspaper Draw. Loughran deserves at least that!

 

I just emailed the boxrec editors. Hopefully they will rightfully change the result.

 

Prove it. Let's see see some footage of Godfrey "at his best" and then "not at his best" for a side-by-side comparison.

Who was rated over Godfrey, and no worse than #2 at the time.

No, he retired with Heeney and Risko(who had just beaten Godfrey) as #1 and 2. Godfrey didn't ascend to the #2 spot until after Tunney was retired and the title vacated, as the rankings you cited clearly state:

As selected by The Ring magazine in the February 1929 issue.
Heavyweights
Title Vacant
1. Young Stribling
2. George Godfrey

 

A. Yes Stribling was # 1. Not Sharkey. But Young Stribling, there is ANOTHER hall of fame puncher who Tunney didn't fight.

B.

The Ring magazine in the February 1928 issue.

Champion: Gene Tunney

2. Jack Dempsey

This content is protected

4. Tom Heeney


So Tunney fights gooftrooper Tom Heeney instead of Jack Sharkey, despite sharkey not losing to heeney + being rated higher in the first place? How does that work with your logic? Please don't bring up the corrupt elimination tournament "won" by Gooftrooper Heeney. That was a farce, Godfrey wasn't even allowed in it because of the color of his skin.

Tom Heeney was a gooftrooper.....he looks dreadful on film. what a waste of a last title defense for Tunney. Instead he should have fought either Jacks Sharkey or George Godfrey. It would have told us a lot about how great Tunney really is as a heavyweight.


Hell anybody can be rated over Godfrey...look at some of the DQ losses he was forced to take? It's hard to get rated highly when your fighting on the cuffs and not allowed to try your best every time out.

 

So what made you realize Tunney did?

They already have it and discussed it, if you bother to read their notes on it:
"Tunney won the newspaper decision according to the New York Times. Loughran was knocked down in the 1st round by a right hand for a no-count. The wire report stated that most of the sportswriters favored Tunney, but the Inquirer did vote for Loughran."

You've seen the fight then?

 

So in other words, you're ACTUALLY doing what you just blindly accused and criticized other phantom people of doing?

 

Still,

This fight was held in PA. Therefore, the New York times write up should not hold any credence over the hometown Philadelphia Paper.

 

No. I didn't ask them to reverse the decision. All I asked for was a compromise. A newspaper Draw. :good

 

Why bring up the February '28 rankings when the fight with Heeney was signed a couple months after that, under different rankings?

Because Sharkey had just lost to recent Heeney victim Risko, leaving Heeney and Risko as the two top contenders for the title. The NY Commission then mandated that Tunney make a title defense straightaway (under threat of suspension if he failed to do so) rather than await a final eliminator between Heeney and Risko.

So you would ask me to ignore relevant facts, then?

Which would mean something if this was ballet, rather than boxing.

Why should he have given a title shot to two lower rated and less deserving challengers?

Yes, it would've told us he was the kind of champion that bypasses deserving challengers for less deserving ones, and opened the way for a lot of justifiable criticism of him.

So why should Tunney have fought a guy who doesn't try his best in fights?