Is Gene Tunney underrated on P4P and LHW lists?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jersey Joe, Jul 15, 2010.


  1. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    P4P

    1 Greb
    2 Langford
    3 Robinson
    4 Armstrong
    5 Charles
    6 Moore
    7 Benny Leonard
    8 Willie Pep
    9 Sugar Ray Leonard
    10 Gene Tunney ?

    I always had Tunney in my all time top 20, but recently I started to treat him like borderline top 10 fighter. Does anyone else rank him so high? Please add arguments even if you disagree.
     
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Tunney was always highly rated, right though to the late 80s, he was considered by many as a top 10 Heavyweight and a Great Light Heavyweight.

    But since the 90s his ratings have slip, he no longer flavour of the month and has gone from probably slightly overrated to underrated by most IMO.
     
  3. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Hasson is lying of course, as he wasn't alive yet at that time to know what people "understood".

    Here's what people who actually SAW the fights said:

    "Renault sent Godfrey to the canvas with two vicious rights and a left to the jaw after two minutes and five seconds in the eleventh round. In the early stages of the fight Renault did not seem to take the fight seriously, and Godfrey outpointed the Canadian boxer in the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds. But Renault, in the ninth, tenth and eleventh rounds, battered the negro severely with rights and lefts to the body. At the end of the fight Godfrey's nose was bleeding profusely and his left eye was completely closed."
    -The NY Times.

    So were Godfrey's closed eyes and bloody nose "ordered" too? :lol:
     
  4. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why not?


    So you asked them to fabricate a result that isn't corroborated by either source? That's even worse.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Then why did Boxrec have it listed as a newpaper draw for quite some time? If two papers reports are conflicting one anothers, then a draw seems like a nice compromise.
     
  6. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    drunk and skipping to the end (apologies). yes. i love tunney and his wins over greb were amazing but past grebs prime. he beat loughran, gibbons and the (VERY overrated) carpentier. i don't know how much of a P4P resume that makes. at LHW he's top 10 but BOTTOM top 10
     
  7. Jorodz

    Jorodz watching Gatti Ward 1... Full Member

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    and jaffay til the day i die, i will NEVER understand how langford can be placed above SRR. i'm canadian and he's our best ever fighter and still...no
     
  8. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    What about beating Dempsey twice? How many LHWs would even get up off the deck after that 6-punch combo from the Manassa Mauler, let alone go on to win? Many great LHWs tried for the heavyweight title and most got absolutely brutalized - Conn, Foster, Moore etc. Even Charles was pounded into submission vs Marciano.

    Also, what about his consistency? He only lost once in over 80 fights, and that was against one of the best fighters ever, and arguably because of a training injury being hit early in the first round. Charles and Moore both lost multiple fights in their primes at LHW. Tunney was arguably one of the most difficult fighters to beat.
     
  9. Jersey Joe

    Jersey Joe Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Dempsey hit a lot harder than anyone Loughran faced. And it's not just theoretical - we saw on film that Tunney could take multiple flush shots from one of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time. Loughran never showed that kind of chin.

    "But Tunney in no way has the resume to be # 1 all time lightheavyweight"

    What are the gaps in his resume that stop this? Did he duck any top contenders that posed a threat to him? He won the LHW title, defended it, and won the HW title and defended it twice in dominating fashion. He has a 3-1-1 record over the #2 or 3 P4P fighter ever. He only lost 1 fight and avenged it. What other LHW did that? I can't think of any - even Spinks got hosed vs Tyson, and only beat an old Holmes by a whisker in disputed decisions. All the other top LHWs had decisive defeats inflicted on them, and had at least one fighter who truly bested them.

    You are paying too much attention to the successes that other fighters achieved, without equally counting their failures. Consistency, and how difficult a fighter is to beat, count for just as much.
     
  10. Rise Above

    Rise Above IBHOF elector Full Member

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    I'm a huge Langford fan and I have to agree with you.

    As far as the whole debate on Tunney being underrated, I think he most definitely is but more importantly the thing most people talk about is his slick skills and defence but rarely does anyone metion his KO %.
     
  11. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Because all their no-decisions have been automatically listed as draws or no-contests until they get updated.
     
  12. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You mean aside from Carpentier.
     
  13. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    Langford fought:

    Gans
    Walcott
    Flynn
    Jeannette
    Young Peter Jackson
    Dixie Kid
    Mike Schreck
    Ketchel
    Blackburn
    Jeff Clark
    McVey
    Philadelphia Jack O'Brien
    Dan Flynn
    Gunboat Smith
    Harry Wills
    Bill Tate
    George Godfrey

    that's what i call pound for pound
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    While I agree Tunney had a better chin than Loughran,your first statement is not certain.
    Loughran met many more punchers than Tunney ,including,
    Hamas x 4
    Renault
    Griffiths
    Delaney x2
    Stribling x3
    Lomski
    Carpentier.
    I do not suggest that these were on a par for power with the Mauler, but another Loughran victim probably was.Max Baer.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Tunney is very under rated. I think he is something like 10-1 vs. hall of fame fighters with the one official loss coming to Greb.

    Even Ali, who was looking to rip fighters before himself liked Tunney.