Is George Foreman a top 10 heavyweight of all-time ?

Many fighters have been given "undeserved" shots at the title...Holmes has numerous ones on his resume.

Big George got the shot and took advantage of it.

 

Agreed, but I think Longhorn's point was that at least he was able to capitalize on that undeserved shot, whereas Holmes wasn't on multiple occasions. While Foreman may not have earned his shot against Moorer, Holmes certainly did nothing to get his shots at Tyson or McCall. I'll give him the Holyfield match, given that he had just beaten Mercer, but still there were plenty of more qualified challengers.

 

First of all, Foreman did not beat a prime Joe Frazier. Anyone who knows boxing knows that Joe was peaking from 68 - 69 up to the FOTC. There's a big difference between this version of Frazier and the Frazier who showed up to defend against Foreman in Jamaica. The Frazier who got destroyed by George was the undefeated champion, you are definitely correct about that. Joe was not the same fighter he was from the FOTC in terms of his overall condition. The Ron Stander fight is a valid illustration of how badly Frazier looked before fighting Foreman. Again, not saying FOTC Joe beats George, but definitely doesn't get destroyed within two rounds. Consider that a practically shot Frazier in 1976 changed tactics against a more patient Foreman and made a slightly better account of himself. If this version of Frazier lasted five rounds with Foreman, than it's not hard to believe that the prime Frazier would have done a whole lot better, with a legit shot at winning the fight if it goes past the middle rounds where he is best.

By the way, I place Foreman in the 6 to 10 bracket all time, after Jack Johnson, Ali, Joe Louis, Marciano and Dempsey. It all depends on how much weight you give to the big wins in his career. Frazier, undefeated was a great win because very little people had picked George to beat Frazier in Jamaica, and he also beat another fighter trained by Eddie Futch in Ken Norton. Both of these fighters gave Ali their toughest battles and Foreman literally walked right through those guys. His second reign as heavyweight champion helps his cause for a higher ranking.

 

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Yes, but I've been known to include 20 guys in my top 10 at times.

 

Foreman is top-10 with ease......... I generally have him in at either # 5 or 6 depending on my mood...........
bbb:thumbsup

MR.BILL

 

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Foreman is becoming severly underrated on ESB. His 70's big wins are becoming discredited, his comeback is extremely underrated, his performances in losing efforts are underrated, his destruction/dominance is undermined, and becoming the oldest HW champion in arguably the second best era in HW history, while having dominated 2 fighters in arguably the golden age of boxing proves his dominance. If you have Liston, Tyson, and all those middle of the road guys ahead of him then your list has problems as far as I'm concerned.

I think he's a top 5 guy, and I believe you could argue as high as #3 if you really wanted to.

Everyone loves Holmes because of his ability, but most people probably rank him above Foreman. I would have much trouble doing so (I don't) and some go as far as to say Holmes 90's comeback was more impressive. The craziness can be rampant folks!

 

Easily top ten.

Dominant wins over Frazier and Norton, who gave ATG's Ali and Holmes all they could handle. Knocked out the undefeated linear champion at age 45, which is more impressive now that so many other 40+ year old HW's have tried comebacks and failed. You can easily find faults withn his resume, as you can do with any other ATG. But his best wins are more impressive than Ali's best wins.

 

Would you consider Moorer one of his best wins?
Whats more impressive Holyfields loss to Valueav or Foremans win over Moorer?

 

Basically with Foreman, the best things on his resume are amazing. The KO wins over Frazier, and him regaining the title at 45 years old are two of the greatest achievements in HW history.

But at the same time, he's lacking in depth. Get past his very best wins, and there's nothing there, really. You call guys like Liston/Tyson middle of the road guys but they both have more substance to their resume than Big George, especially Tyson.

Also, and this is something which also needs to be kept in mind. George Foreman is perhaps the ONLY ATG Heavyweight to lose at the absolute peak of his powers. Ali didn't, Frazier didn't, Marciano didn't, Lewis didn't, Louis didn't, Liston didn't, Tyson didn't (you can try to argue that Lewis did I suppose but he was simply clowning around against a severely outmatched opponent in Hasim Rahman and got caught. Very different than getting completely exhausted and outsmarted and ultimately beat down. Tyson was NOT at his best against Douglas, Liston was faded against Clay)

Ultimately, I rank Foreman in my top 10, towards the bottom. You have to take the good with the bad in regards to Foreman but his very best achievements make him a solid choice for the bottom of the top ten.

 

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Too bad you're showing me this as a broken record. Victor was a good company with good blues and jazz. I've got a few old records in my collection.

Mr. Magoo, let me ask you. Was Frazier in his prime or at his best against Foreman in 73? No broken record here man, just defending Frazier like he should because he doesn't get the credit that he deserves. Can you honestly say this was the same fighter conditioning wise and attitude wise that fought Ali in the FOTC?

Anyone who says Frazier was in prime top condition in 1973 against Foreman the same as how he was in 1971, knows nothing about the sport. Skip, skip, skip, skip, now let the song play on.

 

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Would you also say that Tyson was in his prime against Buster Douglas? Let me guess, you'd say that Douglas would beat Tyson any day of the week righ? Based on what? One fight

Let me know when I can start playin the Guess Who's Laughing, cause that's what I'm getting at coming from you in this thread.