Is George Foreman the most overrated boxer in history?

Never said George was ****. always liked him. I am old enough to remember him fighting. Foreman is just not top 3 ATG status in my book. A great fighter but worth around #9 at most.

No. I Dont expect Foreman to fight just great fighters I just think champions with better records against great fighters deserve to be rated higher. what is wrong with that? Do you think it unfair that even though I do not dislike Foreman and rate him highly that I should rate him where you want to just becAuse you and monte cox say so?

yes, because George had been a special fighter Foreman was able to be a capable fighter at 48 years old. However he was just not great at that time. How many great fighters could beat shannon Briggs at 48? A lot of them if they retired as young as he did, rested as long and were matched as gently as george was. Of Course they would have to have been as great when they were young but it would be a prety long list.

Briggs had already been exposed before he met Foreman. shannon hung around a long time and was considered capable as an old man like Foreman was. Its no hot win for klitschko either.

oh I understand he came back and was a capable fighter as an old man. I understand he looked great as a young man but lost his way and retired early. I just Dont see how being capable so old makes foreman better than he was first time around or why anyone can combine the maturity of old george with what young george had and create something that never existed. Everyone knew george had more to offer when he retired so young but he did not fullfill it so we cannot pretend just because he was half decent so old he would have been even better or as good for longer had he continued.

 

Foreman was pretty much the Max Baer of his generation but he was matched more carefully and had a successful second career. If it wasn't for the Moorer win, I honestly couldn't see much of a case for him being ranked over Baer, as is, I don't see a huge gap.

 

Landing the moorer fight was a coup. Half of the active top 4 or 5 heavyweights of that time would have beaten moorer and all would have been more worthy and entitled of the chance than George was.

 

Can't argue with that. Its an historical win for Foreman but that is the sad truth of the matter.

If Moorer didn't become the first fighter in history to get a draw in a round he was dropped in than he wouldn't even have had that title.

 

true:good

 

I can't really see Baer totally dismantling a Joe Frazier.

 

I can't really see Foreman scoring a late stoppage over Schemling. And considering Frazier was so ill prepared for the fight against Foreman I wouldn't be surprised if a game Baer also battered him. Still, my point wasn't about how they would theoretically match up against specific fantasy opponents, I have no illusion that the men were exact clones of each other but as large, aggressive crude sluggers they were more simliar than different and look how their resume as contenders pans out:



Major Wins:

Frazier
Norton
Moorer
Lyle
Chuvalo
Cooper

Schemling
Farr
Carnera
Schaaf
Levinsky
Galento

Major Losses:

Ali
Young
Holyfield
Morrison

Louis
Braddock
Farr
Nova

 

The number of fights Foreman had,the number of fights he won and lost,his accomplishments in the way that he did it makes him top 5 ATG status. Their are only a few fighters who had more accomplishments then him. Joe Louis,Ali are the only guys who clearly are ahead of him. Lennox Lewis,KO'd twice in his prime but average fighters. Lewis also fought a ton of old shot fighters while he himself was in his prime. Lewis isn't better than Foreman. Tyson isn't as good,either Klitschko,Bowe,Dempsey etc. How many people could possibly be better than Foreman? How many have better records? How many have better accomplishments and how many would beat him head to head?

 

Top 5 Heavyweight ATG.

 

Lennox lewis tops Foreman. He beat the entire cast of his era (Bowe, Holyfeild, Tyson, mercer, Briggs, grant, botha, morrison, McCall, Rahman, Bruno, Tucker, Ruddock, Golota, Klitchko) There is nothing else he could have done. Old George publicly admitted he would not go near Lewis. Young George went 2-2 against elite fighters. Lewis went 14-2 ....AND REVERSED BOTH LOSSES.

Likewise Holyfeild - what else could he have done? (Douglas, Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Holmes, Moorer)

Holmes tops foreman in a big way. Foreman stayed retired to miss Holmes out. unlike Foreman, old Holmes called out Lewis. old Holmes beat and fought better fighters than old George too.

Marciano knocked out more linear champions than Foreman and was a consistant, dominant champion who had his own era.

I do rate george over Tyson. slightly.

 

Lennox Lewis? A guy who was KO'd twice in his prime by average fighters? The guy who hid in England to avoid Prime Tyson and Prime Holyfield? The guy who wouldn't give a rematch to Ray Mercer after Mercer gave him hell? The guy who wouldnt rematch Vitali? Lennox Lewis? Holmes fought in a lesser era than Foreman as did Marciano. Lewis only real wins are Tua and Vitali. Everyone else he fought was old,shot and/or on drugs. Agree to disagree. I think we're done here.

Old Holmes barely beat Butterbean. Old Foreman fought many of the same guys the young contenders were fighting. Cooper gave Moorer and Holyfield hell. Foreman took care of him in 2 rounds. Foreman beat Adilson Rodriguez in the same round as prime Holyfield. Old Foreman beat Pierre Coetzer in the same way prime Bowe did. Old Foreman wasnt Ko'd by Tyson and he wasnt ever dropped once in his comeback. Old Foreman won back the title. Larry Holmes certainly DID NOT. Foreman was better than Holmes in most ways. And Lewis isn't even close when you really look at the guys he cherry picked to fight.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2-aY26Z8ns[/ame]

 

yeah but Spinks wasn't in his 40's and didnt have a 10 year retirement when he beat Cooney.

 

Its true that Frazier had declined some and wasnt the same Joe Frazier that beat Ali but he was still a helluva force to be reckoned with. Its still an A level win for George Foreman and to say otherwise is revisionist.

Big George beats any version of Frazier. Maybe not that easily but he has too many advantages and the style in his favor.

 

I am no revisionist, the frazier win is outstanding, the best win, dealt in the best way possible at that time. To be regarded as a great fighter back then if you asked someone what would be the quickest way to becoming great today they would say "knock out joe frazier". Thats just what george did. On paper, and on film an amazing win.

Its also what douglas did in his day though.

Obviously George also beat Norton so that tops Douglas flunking Holyfeild and Obviously George beat LYLE and others .......as well as an intresting comeback so Foreman is leauges over Douglas on many counts.

As you say Frazier was still good. An A-star win even if Frazier was about as close as being the real Joe Frazier as Tyson was the real Tyson against Douglas. You dont become that bad over night, douglas and Foreman both won a title against a great fighter who was still 80% when he needed to be 100%.

 

I have a feeling you are already convinced. Its not right but you are convinced anyway. Lewis did not cherry pick. In title fights Lewis fought in the good ol US of A more times than England.