Is George Foreman the most overrated fighter in history?

Favorite fighter of mine and of my father. I have him in the top 10, but as I review my top 5, he is not always in it. The case is to be made though.

Evaluating all-time great rankings is never easy. While Ali and Louis are both unarguably contenders for Nr. 1 due to either unmatched quality of opposition, longevity, or era defining championship run, the rest aren't so clear and cut. Take Johnson and Dempsey for example, who will both frequently feature in top 5, but the former enforced the color line he was supposed to break and denied the challenge of many worthy contenders, while the latter not only had an abysmal amount of time in between his defenses, but also failed to meet the top challengers who could threaten him: Langford and Wills. Naturally, there are wrinkles and shades of grey to every legacy, but whichever aspect you look at (quality wins, longevity, defenses, cultural impact) past the top 2, there is usually something to pick on.

Foreman is in a peculiar spot. His pre '73 career, despite being a knockout fiesta, produced relatively few quality wins, even during the time leading up to the Sunshine Showdown.

Gregorio Peralta x2 (George was the only fighter to ever stop Giyo at heavyweight, despite him facing Bonavena and Lyle times two, the latter at advanced age)
George Chuvalo (the only other fighter to stop him was Frazier)
.. and some C-listers like O'Halloran, Wepner, Kirkman, Pires, Gullick etc.

From there on he scored the most iconic wins of his first career: destruction of Joe Frazier and Ken Norton (coming fresh off of 24 rounds against Ali) in 4 rounds total. Two defenses later, he loses the title in one of the most iconic bouts of all the time, the Rumble in the Jungle. He crumbles and comes back with diminished confidence and new trainer, Gil Clancy. Under his tutelage he attempts to redefine his image and get his well deserved rematch against Ali. Along with his win against King Jose Roman from 1973, he adds a few minor wins to his resume: Agosto, Dino Denis, LeDoux, as well as another A-tier win in Frazier and Lyle. His fight against Ron adds to the list of his iconic moments by producing one of the most memorable slugfests of all time. Note, that it was a lesser version of Foreman with fraction of his former confidence and with new trainer and approach to combat. One unlucky bout against Young later (Jimmy, ever underestimated in his bouts against all-time greats like Foreman, Ali, and Norton) he is done with boxing and off on a years long battle against demons of his past. The fight itself was relatively circumstantial, with George admitting over the years he was toying with Young, and his promoters urging him to delay the knockout so the ads can play in between the rounds. When he eventually got serious he, by Young's admission, almost knocked him out with a left hook, before succumbing to the heat and humidity of Puerto Rico (humidity in particular is a killer.)

Now, the curious and often overlooked thing is, Goerge was a matchmaker's dream closely following Ali. People want knockouts, and even after losing his title, Foreman was a gigantic draw, gathering people to watch his every fight. On top of that he learned the craft of matchmaking from his trainer and manager, Dick Sadler, the cousin of Featherweight extraordinaire Sandy Saddler. He learned how to match himself cleverly so as to attract the public attention with an occasional challenge sprinkled on top of it to satisfy the rankings. This very skill served him well through his comeback career.

Admittedly, during his comeback Foreman often fought big, scary looking man with suspect jaw. He said so himself. He looked for them carefully, understanding that fighting young, top dogs could end his dream all too quickly. He would risk it all only if the belt was on the line. And so the only notable names on his resume were Bert Cooper and equally rusty Gerry Cooney and Qawi. Once again though smart matchmaking made him a desirable, profitable draw. In '89 China offered 25 millions for Tyson-Foreman fight. For the record, the likes of Bob Arum, who back in the days would, along Don King, kill for a money maker like Foreman, now didn't bother to pick up his calls. It was only after he self-managed himself into the top that the phone rang again, offering him a three fight deal. But he knew that all the managers would throw him against high profile fighters without a single belt on the line, and then toss him aside like an used tissue should he lose. He would not have it, and his efforts eventually paid off with three title shots, against Holyfield, Morrison, and finally Moorer, beating Alex Stewart and Pierre Coetzer in between.

The monumentality of the Moorer fight is hard to overstate and its a story for another overly long post. Two months short of forty six years old. Twenty years since Zaire. One punch to create a moment that for many is the single most unbelievable, reality defying moment in sport. IBF and WBA belts and second linear championship in his life. Decades standing record of Jersey Joe Walcott broken by over eight years.

Decent defenses against Schulz and Savarese followed, before he retired gracefully after the Briggs robbery.

All in all we are left with curious, unique legacy that can be hard to judge by traditional standards. Foreman did not define any era, but he was a crucial, endlessly rich element of two golden periods of boxing. He never boasted numerous defenses, but he twice overcame odds (3 to 1 against Frazier, and similar one against Moorer) to win the championship. Even though he's had his losses, his annihilation of Frazier and Norton remains iconic, and his brawl against Lyle unforgettable. He won the Golden Medal in New Mexico, his brutal legend and final boss aura elevated Ali who overcame the odds in Zaire, and he made an impossible, larger than life comeback in a second career than according to the entire world wasn't supposed to happen, let alone progress as it did.

 

If anything, he is underrated.

Who else has had a 30 year pro career at HW boxing, with a 10 year break and a 20 year gap between winning the belts?

George was a ferocious monster to the very end

Which other HW's do you see competitive in their LATE 40s anymore? George set the bar very high.

 

I tend to think he is overrated a little. Tremendous amount of padding on his record. I can leave him off my top 10. Definitely a hall of famer. Destroying Frazier is a great win. Crushing Norton great too. Even if Ken was exposed to not being able to handle punchers.
Just not a lot of depth. Every fighter can have their resume pulled apart. So I don’t hate on him being in people’s top 10. It’s what you prefer. I personally think too many of his fights are against low level opponents

 

Not at all. He was a monster. One of the most physically and mentally strong fighters of all time. Without even taking into account the first part of his career, his ability to take punches and his calm demeanor during his comeback is one of the most impressive feats imo. He was ancient and fat and Holyfield tee'd off on him and he fought huge young punchers like Briggs and Morrison and stood up to their shots. I am willing to bet 99% of great fighters would not be able to do that if they tried such a comeback, specially in such a shape. He was special. I think it was mostly mental strength.

 

The most overrated fighter of all time is easily Mike Tyson imo. He is my favorite fighter but casuals overrate the hell out of him and make all kinds of excuses for him. Sometimes, among more hardcore boxing fans he tends to get underrated but among casuals he's easily the most overrated.

 

These old timers are always overrated

 

“30” year career with seven years fighting world level guys in between filler.

 

I agree. But I think George proof that, at his best, he could hang with the best of a more recent era by performing at the level he did as an ancient, out of shape fighter.

 

My top 10 HW thread is really making people question things.

But, no, he whacked out two HW atgs in less than 4 rounds and made it look easy.

 

That's 7 years longer than most HW champions

 

But.... but....his glass chin! Ron Lyle repeatedly knocked him down and Ali ko'd him!

 

Fantastic summary of Foreman's career....well done!

 

Foreman was cheated in the Ali fight, those ropes in Zaire were a disgrace. Ali should've been deducted points the amount of time the ropes kept him from falling right out of the ring. We all know this. But the blacks were very pro Ali so what're ya gonna do.

 

Destroying Norton and Frazier alone in my opinion sure makes him not overrated.

 

I think there are more modern fighters more fitting of the title "overrated". Tyson fury comes to mind when the term overrated comes up. Admittedly Furys career is still ongoing but he is put in the all time list despite having a paper thin resume what does Foreman have to do to be an all time great, come out of retirement and win another championship? Someone else in the thread mentioned Wlad deserving the title as overrated and whilst I'm no Wlad fan he's more deserving of all time great than Fury