I don't have him Top 5 but he's a lock for Top 10. The OP has some disingenuous or ill-informed arguments. The first is that the Norton win is overrated. No, it's not. Norton was a top fighter in the division for half a dozen years, a stretch that is considered a Golden Era for the division. There are plenty of early career KO's and Norton was victim of one against Garcia. The rest of the KO's, outside of the Foreman bout, were at the very back end of his career. Those don't count for much. Going to the brink with Lyle is no shame. Clay went to the brink with Cooper. Ali lost to, and then went to the brink with, an opponent Foreman sihook off like water on a duck's back. Different guys rise up at the right time, and Lyle brought a lot of tools with him for the occasion. And most importantly, George won in emphatic fashion. I'm not going to judge a fighter too much on his career in his 40's. The Moorer win, a high quality win regardless of the history made, was icing on the cake. His performances against Holy, Cooper, Cooney, even Morrison (I thought George deserved a draw), Stewart, Coetzer, Botha and Savarese were commendable. If you really want to shoot holes in Foreman and his record you would mention the list of tomato cans among his first 37 opponents... or his continual fouling via shoving throughout his entire first career.
Now that I think about it, as others have pointed out in the thread, it's kind of hard to rate Foreman because his careers were drastically different. It's not like Ali or Tyson who took 3 years and basically had a layoff, Foreman was straight up retired and thought to be long gone for basically a whole generation. I can't think of any athlete who was gone 10 years and was still operating at the elite level. Plenty of people have come back to take on journeymen or cans, but none have reclaimed the lineal title or went toe to toe with prime champions half their age like Hoylfield, Moore, etc. It's a hell of a feat. The Moorer win would be a "decent" win if Foreman were in his 20's, but the fact he was in his 40's elevates it and thus his whole career.
I wouldn't. Careful match-making (which future contenders called "The George Foreman route to a world title shot") had 40 something Big George looking like Godzilla on steroids. That was the purpose and it worked like a charm. Foreman looked sensational against Gerry Cooney & Adilson Rodrigues, received a badge of courage against undefeated champ Holyfield, faced heavy hitters like Tommy Morrison & Alex Stewart and hit a home run against undefeated Moorer for the belt. Incredible accomplishments for that age but let's not get carried away. A solid contender but he usually ranked near the bottom of The Ring magazine's Top 10 ratings. George faced some ranked opponents but he rarely looked dominant against them. Not bad at all but not a reason to favor him against most top contenders in heavyweight history. 88-91 Foreman doesn't beat Razor Ruddock, Ray Mercer, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, 42 year old Larry Holmes, Michael Moorer, Riddick Bowe, Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson, Buster Douglas, Carl Williams, Tim Witherspoon to name a few. These are guys from his own time period during his comeback. Some were champs but most were contenders.
Probably not the MOST but he is certainly overrated. My dad (a lifelong boxing fan born in 1921) would be *amazed* at how is viewed by many if he were alive today.
I’ve commented a few times on this post. Every champ has a unique path to glory and all resumes can be picked apart. For the record I don’t begrudge anyone that places George from 6-10 on their lists. But I also don’t hold it against anyone that places him outside the top 10. He has some great wins. Undeniably. He also has a very padded record for both careers and a short title reign. He also dropped belts in his second title run, WBA belt to avoid Tony Tucker, and dropped his IBF to avoid rematching Axel Schulz after he received a gift against him. He was also fortunate to fight for the title coming of a loss to Tommy Morrison. Most guys don’t get to fight for the lineal and unified titles having lost their previous bout against a different opponent. Still he seized the moment and got the historic win that changed his all time standing significantly.
I always thought that ducking Tony Tucker was kind of strange for him. By that time Tucker wasn't exactly setting the world on fire.
For what it's worth, he ranked #6 All-Time here in the Classic Forum Survey from a little over 2 years back.
Morrison and Moorer of course. And besides Moorer, what win would be considered his best during his comeback - Cooney? Coetzer? Rodrigues? Savarese?
Comeback Foreman is WAY overrated, besides Moorer he fought mostly cans and even those cans puffed his face like a Mellon, Arum got caught fixing his fights, he rather got stripped than facing anybody worth a lick etc etc All this "old" Foreman was this miracle fighter is some revisionist forum gospel because if you where there as a adult he was never taken seriously , seen as a side attraction and never ever would get near a hard punching prime Heavy like a Tyson, Bowe or Lewis...........he picked Holyfield because he considered him a light puncher and even after his loss to Holyfield he admitted that if he would have been in with a real puncher instead of Holyfield he would have been in real trouble.............he still wore black shades a week after the fight in the HBO recast hiding the beating he took. First career he is definitely not over rated, he is easily next to Ali the best Heavy on the planet for half of the 70's
94 Foreman already slept Moorer. Younger version destroys Moorer. Razor Ruddock was low IQ brawler who never took a backward step. Foreman irons him out brutally. He is literally made for Foreman. Its the Cooney fight with a later stoppage Bowe was an ATG H2H. I never said he would beat top ATG champs like Bowe , Lewis and Tyson. Carl Williams had a glass jaw. He was dropped by Jessie Ferguson and stopped in two by Mike Weaver. He crumbles under the power of Foreman. Witherspoon fought too aggressively. He didn't have the right style. The fight would look like Louis Ortiz vs Bryan Jennings. Spoon being laid out after walking into an uppercut. Foreman as an old man cameback during one of the most stacked era's in HW history and went right to the top.
His comeback fights with; Cooper Ledoux Rodrigues Stewart Coetzer Ellis Denis Cooney Savarese Were very respectable imo.
