Is GGG a top 10 Middleweight of all time

I'm saying if your going on box rec, they are mistaken. I said why I pointed out the other fights both before and after the Johnson where Ketchel was 155-160 pounds! I use Wiki, its a better source for boxing in many cases. If you think Ketchel actually weighed 170 pounds I'm calling BS and would like to read the source were it says the fighters weighed in, and not listing " box rec " as a source because they are wrong in this case. The promotion of Ketchel wearing cowboy boots and a coat to make him look bigger still fools people to this day as does his reported weight at " box rec ".

 

I know it wasn't an intentional attempt to fudge the numbers. I mentioned Pacquiao and Mayweather specifically to discount them as being in any way representative of a welterweight average. Hatton was actually 158 against Collazo, not 160. Goes to show how faulty memory can be. His LWW weight would not have been 156 on average if his official fight night weights during the tail-end are any indication.

Let's do FW:
Barrera 133
Morales 137
Pacquiao 137
Marquez 135
Juarez 135
John 133
Norwood 132
Gainer 136
Guerrero 134
Jones 131
Polo 138
Hamed 135


And LW:
Casamayor 143
Mayweather 139
Castillo 148
Corrales 147
Guerrero 142
Manfredy 141
Diaz 142
Katsidis 145
Gatti 146
Robinson 145

 

Memory? I was quoting Hattons autobiography. I'll see if I can dig it out once home tonight. If I can, I promise to confirm whether I remembered correctly or otherwise. FYI, my memory is that he actually said 11stone 6lbs to Collazo compared vs 11stone 2lbs vs his LWW average. Just in case you're not British, that's 160lbs vs 156lbs respectively. I understand you may be quoting from another source, but you questioned my memory from my source. I'm not trying to claim my memory is perfect btw, you've already disproved that with the Kovalev weights you cited.

Ok, you've cited 12 FW on the night weights. If I add just 1, Salido at 147lbs vs Lomachenko, then, to the nearest pound, gives an average of 136lbs, I.e. 8% above 126lbs. Is that really so far off the "roughly 10%" that i quoted? Bearing in mind 12 of the examples were cited by you to support your argument and just 1 by me, to support mine?

Going off only 10 LWs you cite, nothing from me, to the nearest full % there is a 7% increase to the nearest full percent.

As someone trying to argue that my roughly "10%" is erroneous or misleading, to come up with these examples in support of your argument, I'm actually more, not less, comfortable that "roughly 10%" is a reasonable guess, than I was before you questioned it.

 

I don't see where Ketchel weighed 154 after he had regained the championship. I don't think he was in his prime at any point prior to that.

Walk around weight is irrelevant. Errol Spence weighs the same as Golovkin in the off season but doesn't come in at 170 in the ring.

Ketchel already showed he could comfortably carry 170 at 23. I'm not using a version of Ketchel that didn't exist. If you want to repeat a rumor or give your own speculation let's at least not present them as if they are known facts.


https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detai...a-news-photo/163934072?phrase=stanley ketchel

https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detai...3168010?phrase=gennady golovkin david lemieux

https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detai...2049797?phrase=gennady golovkin david lemieux

https://www.gettyimages.co.nz/detai...y-news-photo/157456331?phrase=stanley ketchel

 

His memory, not yours.

 

Fair enough.
Do you still feel "roughly 10%" is misleading? If so, what rough % would you assign?

 

You're also questioning my method and accusing me of choosing only those that fit my argument, apparently? Uh, only one of us had admitted to that. Salido's FW average isn't 147, by the way; it's his weight for one fight at featherweight.

 

Salido was 136 for Guerrero and 140 for Gamboa. Mismanaged his weight for Loma; didn't even make featherweight.

 

Do you think my "roughly 10%" is misleading? If so, what % would you estimate?

 

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Yes, because Castillo is already an outlier for LW and he didn't even average 148.5.

 

I also didn't say "misleading". I said "it certainly isn't the average". But yeah, it could be misleading if it's going to be accepted and repeated to push an agenda.

 

"Roughly" 10% "certainly" isnt the average? I'd argue it's reasonable to submit that 8-12% is roughly 10%.
For the 3rd time, what % would you guess

 

I dont have an agenda. I do think world class MWs, for example, are on average significantly above 160lbs in the ring.

Ok, misleading. When I get some time, which will be with the next couple of days, I'll take all of the weight increases you cite, those I've cited and can verify as being reported and add to them until I've cited as many as you have. Ill be fair, e.g. when citing Salido vs Loma, I'll also include Lomas weight.

I'll work out both the mean and median (so you dont claim Zurdo's 204lbs skews (which tbf, it will) the mean). I'll be completely transparent with my workings. If the average of the mean and median % increase is substantially less than roughly 10% (say, less than 7% ok?), I'll agree my post was unintentionally misleading and apologise.