Is GGG a top 10 Middleweight of all time

I take issue with the entire premise and framing because I've always maintained that there are outliers in every era. You've also put 100 years of boxing into one bucket to rashly compare them with the last 40 years or so. The sport also underwent gradual changes in those hundred years. It just wasn't very well thought out overall.
But to appease you, I'd probably put the average at 5-8%, bearing in mind that for a lot of that previously mentioned 100-year span, fighters also put on weight after the weigh-ins.

 

You may not have an agenda (I don't believe you do), but exaggerations and spurious statements like these will be repeated and accepted as fact to bolster pre-conceived beliefs. I'm not looking for an apology and I didn't start this with the intention of being accusatory or argumentative. I've already done my share of research. If you can fill the gaps and provide sources, I would be happy to update my data.

 

Salido was 136 for Guerrero and 140 for Gamboa. Mismanaged his weight for Loma; didn't even make featherweight.

 

My 1st post to you on this thread, said that I dont factor in H2H across vastly different eras. One of my given reasons was fighters from vastly different eras weighing significantly different amounts in the ring. Everything I've posted to you in this thread has been driven by support of that. Nothing more.

Thank you. I think 8% is a reasonable estimate. As was my 10%. 5% certainly isnt the average though ;-)

 

I'll trust all your citations and include those too in my calculations.

 

Fair enough. You may think I'm being a d**k to make a point when you see the scale of the calculations I do. I'm not, I enjoy analysing data on subjects I'm interested in and tbh, as someone who is clearly well researched and passionate on the subject, you've genuinely peaked my interest as to whether my roughly 10% guess was reasonable or not.

 

In his prime Hopkins was about 166 pounds, Golovkin about 170. Martinez around 167, Taylor 169.

5% of 160 is 168.

 

Like I say, I'll ensure we both have an equal number of citations factored into my calculations. I suggest we stick to specific reported weights though. Which means I have some research to do before I can start the calculations, as you've cited more specific examples so far than I have.

 

Do you think Golovkin is closer to Moore and Charles in size? That's been refuted on this forum before.

Also, let's unpack that so-called advantage. I sometimes see posters take Kovalev's weight at face value to then claim that a match against Rocky Marciano would be fair. Let's stick to just sizeto avoid a retread of that misguided thread. Or, put it another way, let's completely eliminate Kovalev from the conversation: do you think a prime Marciano who was forced to go down to 175 is on equal footing with the Marciano that actually existed?

All my averages are taken from their given weights on the night.

 

I'm discounting the 172 for the same reason I discounted the disproven 160 for Hatton. Calzaghe was 176 and 179 for Woodhall and Starie.

 

Closer to Moore and Charles in size than who? Size as in height and reach, natural ideal prime fighting weight or their on the night weights for given fights? If the latter, which fights?

I think GGG has averaged closer to 175lbs than 160lbs in the ring in his MW world title fights. So, hes closer to a LHW in the ring weight, than a MW, from Moore and Charles's era, if that's what you mean.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with Kovalev and Marciano. If Marciano was forced to weigh in at 175lbs in his day, I think he would have been a substantially lesser fighter. If he had access to todays weight making techniques and had to make 175lbs c.34 hours before the fight, I'd guess he could rehydrate to his typical 185-188lbs without being significantly weakened, though he probably would be slightly affected.

 

I know he was 158 at noon for Papke. He was as low as 147 in 1907. It's not uncommon for someone to bulk up in their 21st year. GGG experienced a similar growth at that age.

Are you saying Spence and Golovkin is a fair fight then, skill and strategy notwithstanding?

 

Hagler. For Charles and Moore, let's say, "their prime", or close to 175 pounds. Disregard height and reach for now.