Is GGG is an all-time top 5 middleweight?

A quick list that could easily change weekly. I like my top 5 tho.

Greb
Monzon
SRR
Hagler
Hopkins
Gibbons
Ketchel
Steele
Burley
Williams

 

No Chris Eubank???!

 

It was a weak era. But you couldn't ask much more of him, true.
Except beat Roy Jones Jr. and Mercado the first time.

 

Or, he'd had the wear and tear of 350 odd amateur fights.

Actually if you look at both their records, Hopkins and Golovkin won a middleweight belt at roughly the same point in their careers. They were both about 5 years in when they won their middleweight strap. I don't count Hopkins' 1988 debut fight in this reckoning.

MERCADO WAS A BUM. He was worse than Dominic Wade ffs. There's nothing impressive about beating him and there's everything to be ashamed of in drawing to him.

YOU made the argument that the draw should have been a win based on most people thinking that Hopkins should have won. Well, by the same criteria Golovkin gains two wins over Canelo. But that doesn't make your position better so you're squirming on the hook.

You have a problem here: you're trying to have your cake and eat it.

1) Commonly accepted is your opinion.
2) That opinion is wrong
3) I'll take Canelo and Jacobs over Oscar and eastman, thanks.

Well I'm talking about the draw to Mercado We can talk about RJJ beating the juice out of Hopkins if you like. Even if you think GGG lost the second fight to Canelo (a minority view btw) virtually nobody will argue Hopkins beat Jones.

Can I interest you in the time Golovkin beat the crap out of Tshepo Mashego? It was an epic win! KO stoppage and Mashego was roughly equivalent to Mercado. I'm sure that you are duly impressed.

We are talking about middleweight. If you want to make the argument that Hopkins has the better career than Golovkin overall, I might tip my hat to Hopkins. At middleweight, I do not feel that is the case.

Here's a tip: if Hopkins belongs in the top 5 at MW then so does Golovkin because GGG > Hopkins at middleweight.

So amateur career counts when it suits you? Got it.

 

If only Matt Skelton fought at 160.

 

Greb wasnt retired when he died and his blind eye was not taken out ,he died on the
operating table after a procedure to have bone chips removed from his nose following a car accident.I believe my information is correct but welcome any to the contrary.

 

He would beat most of them on your list regardless.

 

Regardless no handouts are given on the resume because but but but he had sooo many amateur fights. The guy was pro at 23.

That would be about right per the titles. GGG is at the 15 year mark now. At the 15 year mark Hopkins was almost 2 years off being beaten for his lineal titles. Of course GGG has never been lineal so we can't really include him in that sort of convo. They had almost identical amounts of fights at this point. Hopkins was the Ring top dog from 96 to mid 2005, say 9 years. GGG finally became the top dog at 160 in 2020 and has maintained to have a full year under his belt. 8 years to go on that front.

There's nothing to be ashamed of in the big scheme of things. Hopkins said it was the turning point of his career. It's no bigger blip than Hagler's early loss or Monzon's early draws. Once the three of them got going they dominated the division in a way GGG never did. He wasn't considered top dog until 2020 "ffs". He didn't place himself above his peers for year after year after year.

By all means continue to die on that hill.

1. Commonly accepted is garnered by watching endless debates on the topic and looking at respected writers lists. By all means bury your mug in the sand and pretend it ain't so.
2. Facts are never wrong.
3. I'll take Hopkins over the pair of them thanks and GGG while i'm going. GGG doesn't even have an official win over Canelo and that was supported by ring Magazine. Hopkins has official wins over Eastman and Scar yeh?

We can indeed. Jones would have run riot on GGG at any point of his career let alone when he was green like Hopkins. Nobody will argue GGG beat Jones either. Jones is on a different planet to anything GGG ever beat.

Keep dying on that hill. Hopkins the rings top middleweight for 9 years, GGG 2 years and counting. No contest.

You might?

If you want to aim for comedy i suggest you get some lessons off Eddie.

Amateur career never counts in a pro resume. It was obvious what i was getting at. Well.......maybe not to all.

Let me spell it out - some fighters enter the pro ranks at a more advanced and skilled stage than others. As an example SRL was a more advanced fighter than Mike Weaver when both entered the pro ranks. A guy like Lomachenko was at a more advanced stage than say, Ron Lyle when they both had their first pro fight.

 

If he boiled down to 160 he sure wouldn't. At 256 he'd beat most of them, yes.

 

I'm just going off what I read in Smokestack Lightning, and just fact checking on Wikipedia (I know it's famously unreliable, but it's the easiest thing to find quickly) seemed to agree.

I'll see if I can find a more specific source (a page number) from Smokestack Lightning when I get home

You have got me questioning myself now, though lol

 

Since I have that book, you've now got me questioning myself! lol
Just looked, you're right and I'm wrong ! The eye was removed and a stone eye inserted! page155.
My apologies!

 

While Golovkin was having amateur fights Greb , Monzon and Hagler were having real fights over 15 rounds. Their sparring camps were tougher than Golovkins 3 round pillow fights against young kids.
What a desperate reach to try conflate Golovkins amateur career to the professional career of Harry Greb


This 345-5 is a number you don't even understand. Not even the official record keepers know exactly how many fights he had and against what sort of opponents. But you can break it down to get a good idea.

He fought one Aiba world Championship and one Olympics. Thats the highest level of competition for amateurs.
Lets say he fought 20 opponents over two years for the Aiba'a and 40 over the 4 years for the Olympics. Thats just 60 fights against decent competition.
There's no doubt he had 100's of other 3 round fights, but against types that wouldn't be good enough to beat say a Rocky Fielding.

Professional camps and hard sparring alone take more of a toll on the body than amateur fights that have an emphasis on point scoring.

http://amateur-boxing.strefa.pl/Records/Golovkin_Gennadiy.html

Golovkin was fresh as a daisy when he fought Canelo. He's more comparable to Wladimir Klitschko who was peak at 35 than a guy who lived and fought through hard times 100 years ago.
Sergio Martinez is another example from the modern era who were peak at 35/36

Golovkin simply didn't look as good against Canelo as he did against the likes Martin Murray because of levels. Duh!

 

And yet you're making excuses for Hopkins because he didn't have many amateur fights.

Let me tell you about Shannon Briggs, the mighty lineal heavyweight champion.

The Ring is one opinion. A biased one in this case:

"The Ring shifted to becoming exclusively a boxing-oriented publication. The magazine is currently owned by Oscar De La Hoya's Golden Boy Enterprises division of Golden Boy Promotions, which acquired it in 2007"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ring_(magazine)

"In 2011, Zabala, who originally brought Alvarez from Mexico to fight in the United States, filed suit against Golden Boy Promotions and Alvarez. He contended that he signed Alvarez to a four-year promotional deal in 2008 and that Golden Boy interfered and stole the fighter, who has gone on to become one of the biggest stars in boxing and regularly generates tens of millions of dollars each time he fights."
https://www.espn.com/boxing/story/_...y-orders-canelo-alvarez-pay-85m-contract-case

Of course the Ring will rate its own fighter ahead of Golovkin.

And yet GGG has more defences than Hopkins

YOU are the one that thinking Hopkins somehow managing to crest the hill that is Segundo Mercado is a big deal. I'm pointing out that such an event is Wednesday in Golovkin's career.

So far I am the one with the evidence

Your opinion is not a fact.

Since the topic of this question is the difficulty of the opposition at their end careers, I'm not surprised that Hopkins managed to dispose of an ancient relic and microbe Oscar. Canelo would have crumpled both of those two up and Hopkins as well.

^ There's an opinion. The only fact at hand is that he clobbered Hopkins at 160.

Hey Oscar,. is your fighter the best? Yes, sure he is! Well, there you have it folks

Let me spell it out for you: the experience gained is balanced by the wear and tear that hundreds of fights have on you.

 

Bernard Hopkins had quite a few amateur fights. I am sure what the argument is, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.