Is GSP too risk averse to finish fights?

check this out

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you crack me up moreorless, to even take that list seriously.:rofl


fedor and sakuraba being easy to finish?

I am simply pointing out that a fighters record can lead someone to believe they are easily finished but in fact all of these names are fighters who are not easily finished at least in their primes IMO.

I think it is funny that you say chuck liddell is a possible case of a fighter who can be labelled stoppage prone when you know that he was rocked in a few fights like the ones you listed and had incredible recovery and therefore was not stopped. Now he is way past his best and can be koed far more easily. similar to Matt Hughes of course with not as sharp of a decline.

Rich Franklin is not stoppage prone he took a whooping from silva before he eventually succumbed very few fighters could take that abuse and continue, if anyone at all.

every fighter can be finished. most have a few stoppages on their record in mma so it has to come down to a more specific weakness to asses a fighters likeliness to be stopped.



Many MMA fighters have weak chins most of them come from a grappling background anyway, Matt hughes chin was about average years ago he certainly did not have a glass chin, now I beleive it has soffend just a bit.

pele landed a flying knee on him that will ko almost anybody, gsp kicked him in the head then finished him with strikes is that a sign of a weak chin?

the rest of his ko losses have come more recently when like I have stated he has lost some of his ability to take damage.

you claim matt hughes is vulnerable to submissions I dont agree perhaps earlier in his career he was but he was able to avoid submissions on numerous occasions.

You know moreorless that I deliberately placed shogun rua in that list knowing that you would come running to your fighters aid and making excuses for his losses.

its ok, I agree with you. but Matt hughes submission losses are excusable to the same degree. both fighters are not easily submitted by any means.


Matt hughes has been submitted four times over the past 13 years and 53 fights, and look at who those fighters were Dennis Hallman who has a 76% submission record according to sherdog out of 50 wins. Bj penn who is very dangerous with submission especially after he lands a hard right hand and hurts you. and then of course gsp who beat a past prime matt hughes down brutaly over a period of two rounds to eventually get the armbar.

the man who submitted hughes twice and the reason why most would point to bjj as hughes weakness was denis hallman. you know that dennis Hallman is a very dangerous submission specialist out of 50 wins he has 38 wins by submission all of them in the 1st round! Add to that matt hughes did not have the the submission experience in their first fight and in their second fight he made a serious error but was still not as adept at submission defence as he would later become.

 

yes

 

As ever this arguement seems to have sprung from you overreacting to realistic criticism of a fighter then inventing a strawman of much more unrealistic criticism to argue agenst.

Hughes isnt "easy" to finish but nobody ever said he was, the original comment was that he was finish prone and I said he was easier to put away than many other guys of his status.

I agree that someone's loses only consistaing of finishes isnt always going to be a clear arguement BUT in Hughes case I think it is given that he has 8 loses. As I said you look at many of his wins and he was in serious danger of being finished aswell, Newton, BJ 2, Trigg 2, Charuto etc.

Compaired to guys like Fitch, Kos and Alves I think Hughes at any point in his career was a good deal easier to finish. That doesnt mean he isnt a tough guy with alot of heart the same way some of those other guys on the list are but toughness and heart will only take you so far if you leave openings.

 

GSP is the anti Fedor. He wants to finish fights but he is a high percentage fighter. Almost every time Fedor has been in a sticky situation is a result of him wanting to do damage and finish the fight. He usually gets put on his back as a result of trying to take someone down or sub. In fairness, GSP fights the way he does because he has to. Fedor has the chin and power to fight the way he does. If he didn't have his chin or power then Fedor would have lost a couple of times by now. The times Fujita and CC clipped him would have been the end and the numerous times his power has brought about finishes wouldn't have been so easy - think Rogers, Arlovski and Sylvia.

 

He tried to but gsp is not really a KO puncher. Yes he has ko his opponents before but he is not known as a KO puncher. He still fought very well using that jab effectively.

 

How am I overreacting?

the criticisms of Hughes are simply unfounded.

Koscheck you said is harder to finish than matt hughes but he was finished twice by lesser fighters than hughes was. no doubt alves is tough but he already has almost as much losses by stoppage as hughes with far less fights when/if he has as many fights he will have many more stoppage loses- you have a very bias view moreorless.

if was after all Pele Landi Jons and bj penn that ko'd him now compare that to jon fitch and paulo thiago for pure striking power.

I love how you make it sound like my claims are unsupported and I am simply getting emotional. I have given you good reasons why I believe Hughe's record is not indication of his ability to be finished but they are simply disregarded by you because you have a very agenda driven way of thinking.

Though I like Matt Hughes as a fighter he isnt one of my favourite fighters (wouldn't be even in my top 20 favourites!) and I have no emotional connections to him I just think your wrong and you cant seem to deal with that.

 

I think thats exactly what your doing, Hughes defence agenst good strikers and quality submission fighters simpley isnt that great compaired to many of the recent big names GSP has faced.

Thats the arguement that was made but as with that Anderson thread thats not the arguement you responded to but rather "Matt Hughes is a terrible fighter who anyone can finish" which nobody was making.

 

I dont know what your talking about.:huh

it was said hughes was finish prone which to me means that he is easy to finish similar to when someone says that a boxer has a glass jaw it means that they cant take a punch.

matt hughes is simply not that fighter.

hughes has been in many bad situations that other fighters would have given up in but he persevered that is my point, and when he was finished it was by quality fighters and about half of his stoppages were a hughes that is past his best.

I have just responded to your claims.

Now your saying he is not easy to finish but easier to finish than guys like fitch who have never even been finished.

I dont think he is the hardest guy to finish either but just not in any way a guy who could be said is prone to be finished by the standards of mma.

If your simply saying that all of hughes losses are by stoppage then you should just point out that little anomoly and leave it at that but you went further to say that hughes has a particular weakness to submissions.