Is Harry Greb a top 3 light heavyweight H2H?

#1

-you can take off all the guys who were afraid of Greb or made "business decisions" not to lose, lol,

The point is that those fights that didnt get made because of "business decisions" werent the result of Greb's "business decisions."

Tell me again how boxing is not governed by contracts. Here this attitude of yours on fighters, managers and promoters on making business decisions why is it so offensive to you?

Show me where it says that a business decision is against the rules. Let me ask you, why do you think Greb fought the fights he did at LHW, and HW, simple bigger purses so even Greb made business decisions. Why did he fire his manager, all business decision and all the decisions were about money
Show me where anybody can force a fighter to fight.

I didnt realize Brisbane sent a reporter to the fight. Lol.

Silly, silly, silly, where did it say that a reporter was sent from down under?

Enjoy your free newspapers reporting on fights taking place literally on the other side of the planet.

Here is a blurb from a paper down under, that you see as being almost in another planet. Boxing fyi is an international sport. America was and still is the main go to place and interest in American boxing doings has always been very high and of interest even on the other side of the planet. But you already know that right?

Lets just ignore that Carpentier said the same thing a year and a half earlier only to avoid Greb like the plague, rejecting the second largest offer of his career.

But surely you must know that Carp and Dempsey were talking about Carp II overseas around that time and yes it was a business decision cos a Dempsey – Carp fight overseas in his mind, might produce more money. Oh but that doesn’t fit, I get it now, that’s why Carp avoided Greb like the plague cos he was scared your version. Yes ignore the facts and go with your fantasy version.

instead take 1/5 that amount to participate in a fight he attempted to gix in his favor only to lose to a crude unknown in Battling Siki, a guy who shared six common opponents with Greb and lost to all of them.

I guess you never heard of a tune-up fight, since true boxing knowledge doesn’t enter into your reasoning. The French Federation exonerated Carp and his manager, of any wrong doing. Again ignore the facts and go with your fantasy version. You say Carp admitted I liked to see that, cos you do exaggerate, and take things out of context

Carpentier wanted nothing to do with Greb, he knew what he would have gotten.

The question is not whether Carp wanted anything to do with Greb, the question is why did he to, so why fight Greb? He saw there were other options and he decided to go with them, that it backfired cos of Siki, well that’s what happens when you toss the dice

He got the same thing from Greb's townsman Frank Klaus and never forgot the internal bleeding Klaus' punishment caused prompting Carpentiers manager to jump into the ring in tears literally to save his life. Lol.

It really is sad that you seem to take delight in a kid who was facing a man in his prime and who was vastly more experienced, like you are making such a great point. The kid stayed in and took his beating for 19 rds. Really pathetic on your part. But again it seems you ignore what doesn’t fit.

As a champion, yes, you are obligated to fight your top contenders.

Where is this written O wise one, O you just wrote it thats right. At that time money dictated not no stinkin imaginary obligation.

Unless of course you want to be regarded as a cherry picking ducker.

Oh yes 90+ yrs later, at the time the average fan didn’t care they paid to see Dempsey fight. It doesn’t matter what we may think it was a different time.

Given that you find no fault with Dempsey's refusal to face his top contenders is it any wonder you think it perfectly acceptable for Carpentier to defend his championship against a welterweight and a total unknown?

That WW, what caliber was the gun that was pointed at his head making him accept the fight? The fight took place where? In the UK. Brits are very knowledgeable fans. If they paid to see the fight and they did why? If it was such a mismatch. Since you seem to think cos he was a WW he shouldn’t have been invited to the dance with a LHW, bump it up a division on both ends, a MW vs a dominating HW, your feelings echoed the feelings of fans and scribe about a HW fighting a MW.

Carp had that right to and enough people thought so, to make Carp some $ fighting this WW and the unknown.

The unknown backfired on Carp but like the saying goes “that’s how the cookie crumbles”

I guess that's where you and I differ.

I guess we see things differently, that’s ok no problem

You don't really appreciate fighters for their ability

How do you know this?

sportsmanship,

Sorry I had to laff, Greb who specialized in unsportsmanship behavior and you who doesn’t know how to be a good sport.

or sense of accomplishment

I believe Dempsey accomplished a lot cos, he was a game changer, he had the only million dollar gates, his fights that are still viewed today more so than anybody else combined that was lucky enough to be filmed in that era. I know the nitpickers whine that he didn’t fight Wills and Greb, but he didn’t need to and didn’t and he still is considered an icon.

but rather you just attach yourself to the personality of a fighter and decide from that point that he can do no wrong.

This is where you and I differ, I admire the fighter and how he fought, I don’t get into his personal life

I prefer my fighters to fight the best and challenge themselves.

Yes, it’s nice to think that way and want that, but in real life it don’t always happen. You have heard of “uncrowned world champions”, even the best fighter P4P ever SRR, avoided fighting certain guys, it’s not fair, it’s not right but it happens. Maybe you should start a fantasy boxing site cos reality seems not to be your cup of tea.

That essentially what sport is all about. You aren't a sports fan.

I guess by your criteria I am not.

dempsey1234 said: ↑

The prof still doesnt understand that Carp didnt have to fight Greb that it was rightfully Carps choice.

This oft repeated statement by you is absolutely asinine.

Please explain in your unique way, why its asinine? It happens to be the truth. O I know you it doesn’t fit.

Its a champions choice to fight who he wants? If that's the case then "champions" would simply camp on the title for seven years and refuse to fight anyone who might hope to beat them...

It is his choice and of course the choice of his promoter who is actually paying the bills and offering the fighter the opportunity to make some money.
There is a saying in boxing, risk dictates the money,

Oh in your fantasy boxing game you can do what you want, but this is real life and it don’t work the way you want it to, so sorry. Cos hardly anybody thought that Greb or Wills could beat Dempsey except of course you and your fantasy boxing.

oh wait, that's exactly what you think should happen. Its ridiculous. Any "champion" who refuses to fight his top contenders is a ****ing coward and certainly no champion by any definition you care to put forth.

I am sure Dempsey was shaking in his boots over fighting a punchless MW and a slow old style HW, wide open to be hit.

dempsey1234 said: ↑

This is another excellent example of the prof's cherry pickin, ignoring facts that contradicts his view of things and of his spins to make it seem like he's making a point.

Lol, yeah god forbid I ignore Carpentiers own words where he admitted it was an attempted fix.

Just like I ignore Dempsey's own words where he admitted his "contract" to fight Wills was a sham. Oh wait, no, that was you who chose to ignore those facts. Wait, I'm cherry picking?

If you only knew how dumb you sound. Let’s take things one at a time

I don’t know anything about that, that he admitted he fixed the fight. I do know he was exonerated by French Federation after they interviewed 40+ witnesses. Please provide us with something other then your word, cos your word leaves a lot to be desired. You said the same thing about Dempsey and the contract that it was a scam and in Dempsey’s own words, he said it was a scam, I found the source of this quote and saw your lack of contractual knowledge, you put your foot in your mouth. I will explain again cos you seem to be a slow learner, Dempsey signed an “open ended contract”, Kearns being smarter then you seem to be, said there should be a time limit. Even a clueless person should know you don’t leave an open ended contract open forever. In case you don’t know and that seems to be the case, an open ended contract leaves you open to somebody coming in and suing you. So a wise man closes it and puts a time limit, which is what they did. Nothing wrong in that or illegal it was just a smart move. All contracts fyi have outs and terms, Dempsey clearly stated the terms, they had a time frame and the time expired. I posted the whole statement, the sham is you, your word is not good enough, show us the quote the whole quote and dont take things out of context, the Dempsey quote, either says you dont know what you're talking, plain stupid or lying. Which is it? So your credibility on these type of quotes is zero.

 

#2

I'm sorry but if you have the stones to call yourself a world champion, which Carpentier was, and climb into the ring to dispute that claim then don't ***** to me about your age.

First off it was a BS title no world title, he was 18yrs old Klaus was a man in his mid 20’s. Again since you really no so little about boxing. An 18 yr old is still more boy then man. Everybody that knows anything about boxing knows this to be true, an 18yr old hasn’t developed his man strength, that he lasted 19 rds is saying something, then 4 months later he stepped in with another mature fight by the name of Billy Papke, and lasted 18rds. I guess that tells you a little something about about Carps “stones”

The fact is that in the 1911,12,13,and 14 when idiots like you want to use Carpentier's age as an excuse for his losses he was fighting MUCH better fighters than he was when Dempsey chose to defend against him in 1921.

And this is a point you’re making, it does not matter cos Carp proved he had the “stones’ to go 19 & 18rds, as a boy of 18 and as a man vs one of the greatest fighters of his time. FYI, it’s not an excuse about his age it is the truth, an 18 yr old doesn’t have his man strength. The Carp that fought Dempsey would have beaten both Klaus and Papke cos not only was he more experienced he a mature man

and when he ducked Greb in 1922

You darn well know the truth, Carp II was looming, but to fit your sorry, pathetic storyline saying Carp ducked Greb, fits and the truth doesn’t, sad.

So please, don't **** on my leg and tell me it raining by complaining about his age in fights he CHOSE to take.

This is how ignorant of boxing you are, Carp did fight those fights, and that took, “stones”, that you choose to make an issue of this shows total ignorance. Today you would say Carp was rushed into those fights, not an excuse but the truth. Carp I don’t think said anything about his age, I am saying it based on knowledge of the game which you seem to lack.

dempsey1234 said: ↑

The following, has to be the silliest example of the prof being the prof, "I didnt realize Brisbane sent a reporter to the fight. Lol. Enjoy your free newspapers reporting on fights taking place literally on the other side of the planet. i always enjoy your biased inane spin on things." The prof seems not to know about wire services."

LOL. I don't know about wire services... This coming from a guy who admits Ive done 1000 times the research into these old newspapers that you have. Enjoy the view from my coat tails Spec.

Then why make an issue out of a wire story from down under?

Its true, you can get tons of articles on freebie websites. But the people who begin and end their research with the freebie websites, such as quoting a wire report from a newspaper across the globe, might as well give up.

Why? You don’t need to read the same story written by 10 different writers with a slight variation to understand the gist of the story. Since the story was about American fighters and a Frenchman and an American promoter with the story originally coming from the US, and they decided to pick it up, you have to tell me what’s wrong with that?

So you can log onto Trove and pull a wire report from the Brisbane ****ing Courier about a fight in New York and you think you have the whole story?

Sorry, unlike you that’s all I need, that it mentions that the winner of the Tunney – Gibbons will fight Carp, they all fought eventually, the story that gives you so much amusement was Dec 1923,

Really? Do you know how many newspapers there were in New York at any one time? What makes you think that the one opinion responsible for the Brisbane Couriers article outweights the 30 or 40+ others? Who even wrote the Brisbane Courier's article? Without a byline most people of journalistic integrity wouldn't even repeat it without multiple sources confirming its contents.

I will leave the chasing after 30-40+others to you, I know enough to say they all fought each and Carp did fight Tunney, lasting 15rds not bad for a guy who supposedly “long in the tooth”. FYI 30 is not considered old.

I remember when Boxrec first got started and was absolutely filled with results that came from wire reports. Wire reports that were completely incorrect and in some cases for fights that didn't even happen. Boxrec still has tons of those as a matter of fact. So would I be a good historian if I read wire report from the New York Times on a free site about a fight that happened in Paducah, KY and just ended there without actually looking up the Paducah Sun's results? That's essentially what you are advocating.

I am not advocating anything, I don’t need to read reports from Paducah, and I am not trying to be a historian.

I mean, how can this clown falsely accuse me of selectively posting articles (when I post BY FAR more articles than anyone to support my arguments) and of cherrypicking (when he accuses me of ignoring sources that are actually cited in my work) but then quotes a ****ing newspaper that wasn't in the same state, country, continent, or even hemisphere as the fight in question.

Flasely accuse you I have caught you with your hand in the cookie jar more once. Get ready, you still don’t know what a contract is or negotiating a deal. Your embellishments, on the facts, the Dempsey sham, and you claim to be a historian, please. Sometimes I feel sorry for you cos you say things like this, “but then quotes a ****ing newspaper that wasn't in the same state, country, continent, or even hemisphere as the fight in question.”

You mean to tell me that the reports cos they are not in a local paper is incorrect, or whatever, I can read about a NYC fight in any country and get the gist of what happened, who fought, where and who won.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. And frankly, when ANYONE wants to accuse me of cherry picking my research they can come up with a more comprehensive list of sources that I based my research and book on.

You do cherry pick, Nobody or at least myself, don’t have to be a historian to argue with you, this is a forum where everybody can come on and discuss boxing, so by you saying you have a comprehensive list of sources that’s great, you may be strong in some areas and weak in others, which I have shown to be true.

Hasn't been done yet. Or maybe they can name sources I left out? Nope. Anyone? I didn't think so.

Here you are cherry picking your arguments, nobody needs to name sources why?

You wanna quote from the Brisbane Courier then while saying I'm cherrypicking then just go look at my list of sources for that fight GS. You wont see the Brisbane Courier there but you also wont see any missing papers that actually had boots on the ground and asses in the seats.

Why does that drive you crazy cos it’s almost from another planet? Wire services provide news from all over the world, the world no longer relies on smoke signals or flashing lights, it sends info all over the world via a wire service.

"IBRO" LOL. My 11 year old could pay the IBRO admission fee and be a member of IBRO. That's how much it means to be a member of IBRO. Its the equivalent of fishing a detective badge out of a box of crackerjacks. IBRO itself is meaningless just as claiming to be a member of IBRO is meaningless. There are some very VERY good historians in IBRO but then there are some absolute clowns in it as well.

Why, does that bother you? IBRO, to me from what I’ve seen provides a decent magazine, with some articles of interest and a bunch of cut n paste reports which to the average boxing fan is interesting of course not to a great historian such as yourself.

And yes the IBRO journal is a rag. 90 percent of it is nothing but literally cut and pasted articles from old magazines and newspapers. What could be more clearly defined as a rag than that? A journal that took absolutely minimal effort to produce. Yes, there are some gems in there and usually those come from serious researchers but they make up a small percentage of the overall content.

That’s ok, from what I have seen of it, it’s just another boxing magazine which in this day and age you find very little in that form.

LOL at Dempsey1234 trying to teach me ANYTHING about Carpentier. I doubt there is a person outside of France who has studied his career in more depth than I have and I doubt there is anyone alive who has seen as much footage on him as I have.

The same with Greb and all you do is try to bully people with this great knowledge. Who cares that you have done soooo much research and have seen more of him then anybody alive. If I don’t see more, Carp, Dempsey, Greb, it’s ok life goes on.

"Carp was somewhat of a match for Gibbons" LOL. Carpentier lost every round to Gibbons, got the **** kicked out of him, and was thoroughly schooled. In fact the newsreels of the event seen in France were literally titled "Carpentier gets another boxing lesson.

Let me ask you a question, a simple one that even you might be able to answer since you’ve read so much if Carp was so bad and hopeless how come he went the distance with Gibbons and 15rds with a prime Tunney. Did the promoter offer Carp as a gimme for Gibbons? Why pay Carp so much, if he was a gimme for Gibbons? If it was a gimme who besides Gibbons benefited? I don’t think the promoter or the matchmaker expected such a one sided fight. You see you jump to delusions. To the people who put the fight together and on paper it it was a competitive fight that it turned out different well that's how it goes sometimes.

 

#3

Your response to me proves my point entirely, your rebuttals are based entirely on popularity and not substance.


Yes Sherlock you are right my rebuttals as based on popularity only, you really reaching but that’s alright cos a desperate man reaches.

I couldn't care less which fighter makes more or has more fans. I'm not some moron who idolizes Floyd Mayweather because he can flash stacks of hundreds. I'm interested in these guys accomplishments. The simple fact that you can only find refuge in their relative popularity and not their accomplishments speaks volumes.

Dempsey, was popular cos of what he did you seem to be extremely jealous that Greb, who fought everybody and got paid peanuts so much so that he fired his manager cos he wasn’t getting him money fights. Sorry to inform you a fighters popularity opens many doors for him.

Dempsey’s accomplishments: he was a game changer, he was involved in the only million dollar fights of the 20’s. His title run before he won the title, the Willard fight, the Firpo fight are still talked about. Those are better accomplishments then most. You’ll comeback with what about Dempsey didnt fight him Greb? Too small, and Wills, there were many, many issues. After 1924 Wills was pretty much done.

And yes, Carpentier was long in the tooth at 30. When Carpentier fought Tunney and Gibbons he had been boxing as a professional for 16 years. He had more fights and had been fighting at a higher level for longer. The day Tommy Gibbons turned pro Carpentier had already had 60 fights and his last fight was against Dixie Kid. By the time Tunney turned pro Carpentier had almost 100 fights. He was, by any figuring, at the tail end of his career. He knew it and so did everyone else then and now.

Pray tell me, how can a fighter who is pretty much done go 10 with Gibbons, and 15 rds with a prime Tunney. Your assessment of Carp seems to be tainted, and biased

Had Adeyinke done his homework and read Carpentier's autobiography he could have saved himself a lot of time. Carpentier admits his complicity in the attempted fix, although, just like every other negative aspect of his career he attempts to spin it. The guy has more excuses than George Chuvalo.

P.S. While you were sitting there copying and pasting someone elses work, sitting in your basement with your thumb up your ass, I discovered an unknown Harry Greb film, maybe two. Which one of us had a more productive day? LOL.

Am I supposed to jump up and down, am I supposed to be jealous? Really to tell you the truth I can care less.
But now since we are letting bygones be bygones yippee!

 

LOL... this has got to be the funniest line of 2016!

 

Ya know I gotta reply to this post cos of your "heartfelt'' apology, I dont want to be rude and ignore it, be back next year

 

Here is more comedy from the prof:

"I apologize if I hurt your feelings but I think if you go back and look at my history I only attack those with name calling when Ive been attacked myself. I dont start it but I can finish it with the best of them." bahahahahaha

I look forward to next yr of more one-sided comedy from klump n da klumpets, they know who they are.