Is Heart The Single Most Important Attribute If A Fighter Is To Become An ATG?

Mmmmm...good question. I'd say yes.
If we draw up any ATG list, all or virtually all the names on that list will have great heart.
I suppose being an ATG, a fighter will be at the very least good at everything, and have the required intangibles as well, so an ATG fighter almost by qualification in addition to other factors needs an ATG heart too.

So for the most part, yes. There are exceptions to the rule though. JT's example (Jones) and Tyson spring to mind. You could also mention someone like Liston who had possibly the potential of an ATG, but his heart wasn't made of English Oak either.

PS-is there a difference between heart and pride?

 

Nice answer.

 

Anyone who steps into the ring has to have a bit of heart. Bascially, they are putting their lives on the line. The question is how much?

Someone mentioned that RJJ's heart may not have severely tested but, i disagree. His heart was tested in the griffin rematch. He was putting himself at risk by opening up looking for the KO, which he managed to get.

But, to answer your question. Yes, I think heart will get you there as well as smarts. Those on the ATG list weren't exactly dumb either.

 

I don't know about that, you've hammered out some compelling stuff and certainly don't shirk explaining in length.

The rest of your post makes one think too, that's for sure.

 

Just a comment if i may, every fight you mention excepting Cooper features an Ali whose freakish attributes had lessened. Definitely not the same man who beat Liston with surprising ease. Many would claim at least Frazier however would always test his mettle at any stage.

 

:blood

Going by this criteria pretty much every fighter ever to box has heart. The fight only lasted 2 and 1/2 minutes. Again tho, i'm not saying Roy didn't have heart, but i don't think this is valid proof. Tarver 1 would be a fair sample depending on whom you talk to.

 

That's true. Anyone who steps into the ring has heart. As I said, it's a matter of how much heart. Would you fight Montell, Hopkins, or Toney?

 

Well, the heart of a champion has always been a factor with the all time greats and a lot of fighter who could have been ATgreat suffered because of there lack of it. An ATG gets off the floor to win and overcomes adversity with heart,Louis, Marciano,Ali,Dempsey,Foreman,Frazier,Tunney have all done this

 

For whatever purse Roy got? I'm damn sure i would, the hospital bills wouldn't be that much.

I get your point and do agree whoever steps into the ring has great heart for sure, but we're talking the best of the best here and comparing them to their peers (not John Doe/Thomas on the street), splitting hairs if need be. A Camacho isn't going to be put on e level with Saad or Chacon, for example.

 

Yeah, true...I know what you are on about. Jones fought guys much bigger than him and those who could knock him out. Whilst it is not apparent (on face value) that his heart may not have been severly tested. I believe it has by taking some of the fights he took. Sometimes it takes more than a champion's heart to get up from a vicious punch like the one from Taver. That was a massive left hook. Ability to absorb punishment helps.

I seem to recall a line from The Power of One (the movie/book that got me started in boxing)... First, with the head and then with the heart. So, yeah a heart of a champion is required for sure.

 

you can be an atg with or without the skills power speed heart doesnt matter what velocity it's your wins and your fighting instinct.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm all too well aware my posts ramble on way longer than necessary, but I'll be working on becoming more succinct. (Along with improving my poor grammar and punctuation.)

Sometimes, a boxer's heart isn't tested until he's spiraling into decline, due to age, or lack of legitimate competition.

Some boxers are so gifted, that at their peak nobody they confront succeeds in challenging their resolve in the face of adversity.

Although Salvador Sanchez did get off the deck in drawing with Juan Escobar, it could be argued that Sal's record should have been 46-0 when he met his untimely passing. (His only official loss was by 12 round SD.) His conditioning was so flawless that nobody was really able to test him in a genuine high profile trial by fire. He frequently came from behind to overtake his opponents, but this was largely due to patience based upon the confidence that he was in better condition than his adversaries, and would overtake them over 15 rounds. (Sal was among the final great 15 round champions boxing produced, one whose legacy would have been severely truncated by this current 12 round limit garbage.)

For a boxer with vastly superior abilities, a Catch-22 situation occurs. What would RJJ's ATG status be, if he retired after decisioning Mike McCallum, or even John Ruiz? Would he rate above SRR? But critics would have then said, "We never found out how he would have handled a true crisis situation."

For Murray Woroner's staged superfight between Marciano and Ali, Nat Fleischer declared in the preamble that, "Muhammad Ali has not proved to me that he is a great fighter. In my opinion, he is the fastest heavyweight champion in boxing history, but he hasn't demonstrated that he is a great one," or words to that effect.

Fleischer was correct. As of 1969, nobody had really tested Ali's heart in a war of attrition. (After the FOTC, questions about Ali's heart were answered.) Is it indeed necessary for a boxer to get beaten up to prove his greatness? In that instance, critics would use such an occasion to denigrate that competitor. If, on the other hand, he retires without anybody having been good enough to test him, then we are left questioning how good he really was, because of the belief that the true measure of a man can only be taken when he is surpassed by defeat, in fighting the unbeatable foe. (The Don Quixote Syndrome.)

How many competitors deliberately set out to find an adversary that their very best effort will fail against, just to test how good they really are, by not prevailing? Arguello's first match against Pryor is a case in point for both participants. We discovered what an awesome level of performance was necessary to definitively overcome Alexis, yet left wondering if Pryor may have truly been impervious during that event, regardless of his opponent. (Sure, Duran could have decisioned Pryor, but could Duran, Hearns, Cuevas, SRL, or anyone else near Aaron's weight have ever been able to stop The Hawk inside of 15 rounds on that night in Miami?)

Food for thought. (Or perhaps only BS.)

 

Marciano
Ali
Frazier
Foreman
Holmes
Haglar
Hearns
SRL
SRR
Chacon
Sanchez
Lopez
Arguello
Duran
Pryor

No matter what names you add, they all had one thing in common: They had huge hearts. It's heart that whispers in Foremans ear; "Is that all you got George," like Ali did. It's heart that keeps getting back up like Lopez did. It's heart that suffers a "no mass" type humilation, and then wins world titles in two more divisions. It's heart that comes from hopelessy behind on points to win by KO like virtually every ATG great has done. An ATG must have Skills AND heart that are both WAY above average.

Boo