Is Holyfield an example of how PED's really did take a fighter to the next level?

Lewis had a way bigger frame though, so his gain is more understandable.

 

Good point about Hearns. He had such a skinny lean frame yet put on a ton of lean muscle over the years.

 

Lewis always looked natural to me. Looked like a guy with a big frame and good genes who lifted.

 

PEDs are a huge advantage, I've seen people come into the gym and know nothing about boxing, but they were obviously doing PEDs at the time. They are brave and aggressive and they'll jump into the ring to spar and most are willing to get hit and continue to try. Those same people might come back 3-4 months later, be off their cycle and they won't get near the ring. PEDs don't just provide a physical boost, they make people much more aggressive and brave.

IMO, PEDs give such an advantage that a person who is using them and a person who is not should not compete in a sport, especially in a sport like boxing where the goal is to inflict damage. I have my own opinions about when PEDs became prominent in boxing, and like Heisenberg, I don't think any top competitor is "clean." If anybody was "clean", and they were competitive, they'd be in league of their own if they used PEDs.

 

Not only this, but Holyfield worked on foot positioning in a way that nullified Tyson.

Look at the film and you’ll see when they get in close, Evander basically tries to place his left knee between Tyson’s legs and angle his body so Tyson’s feet are even (he had a habit of doing this or getting close to this position anyway) instead of the lead foot in front.

Now that means when Holyfield pushed Tyson or muscled him, Tyson has no back foot on which to try to leverage to resist. You can try this with anyone and play to role of Tyson and see how you basically have no choice but to either fall down or go backwards.

Part of this strategy also was to try to get that left (lead) knee right up below Tyson’s, um, cup … which crowds him to the point that it takes away the uppercut (or any chance to get leverage on it) when Evander is able to achieve this position.

It’s actually just very advanced technical body positioning and footwork. Go look at the film and you can see it. Also, once he got his knee up under Tyson and had him even-footed, you can see that to move Mike he takes a step forward with his back (right) foot and then pushes off that and Tyson goes backward. Holyfield repeats that motion and walks him back.

Now if you’re a 90-pound weakling you probably aren’t going to get in that position in the first place, and if you do you’re still going to get outmuscled, but Holyfield was strong and this amplified that advantage.

 

Great post.

 

It might not have been “boxing” as we enjoy it now - but Jack Johnson’s method in clinching and grappling was something to behold - particularly while landing powerful punches at the same time. Sure, Lil Arthur had some naturally built muscle and strength to be getting on with, including against some smaller opp. - but he really knew what he was doing in terms of nullification and physical manipulations via stance and leverage - and he executed it with ridiculous ease.

 

Before prison you rarely saw a fighter stop him from coming forward , when he did he was straight up.