Is Ike Williams a top 5 lightweight of all time?

I agree that Williams is one hell of a matchup style-wise for Duran. That fight is pretty much 50/50, Ike is very capable of winning that one, based on what I said earlier in our argument about Williams and Whitaker. I definitely believe Whitaker would beat Williams. What do you expect Ike to do? Pressure Whitaker and swarm him at all opportunities? That was not his style, he was a boxer-puncher who was at his best when the opponent was in his face, giving him countering opportunities to land his huge shots. Otherwise he was a good boxer, quite good, but not suited to pressure and land countering shots on a slick mover like Whitaker as he was a guy like Jack or Montgomery.

I think Ortiz could possibly beat him, not sure about Leonard, as I'm not positive how I rate him among modern day stylists. Gans definitely not.

I rate Ike #5 or #6 all time, he and Ortiz being interchangable at the 5th spot.

 

Would you make Pernell the solid favourite against Aaron Pryro too, or 50/50. Cuz you dont seem to think that there is a style that beats whitaker.

 

He's the bestest

 

50/50 at 140. I think Whitaker got less and less mobile as he moved up, which could hurt him against someone like Pryor, even though it could do well for him against others. Still, that is the style Whitaker fared best against, even if he's never fought anyone like Pryor. Then again, the same can be said of Pryor. In fact, there are a hell of a lot of questions Pryor left unanswered, so don't talk down Whitaker's resume and give me this **** about Pryor.

 

Why are you like trying to give me an order, Pryor would easily be the best h2h fighter whitaker ever faced and honestly, i would see him go all out on him, aaron isnt going to repsect Whitaker's power.

How about dulio loi, you pick him to be the favourite against whitaker, or does pernell outbox him too?

 

I've never seen Loi fight, but from what I understand(though from what I've heard the little footage doesn't suit this fully) he would seem to be a very difficult style matchup for anyone, not just Whitaker, as he was supposed to be a very slick pressure fighter. But I wouldn't give him a better shot than Pryor. Napoles is another I give a pretty good shot at Pea at 135 and 140.

As far as your statement about Pryor not respecting Pea's power, honestly, have we not seen this ridiculous theory disproved too many times to continue using it? Not just with Whitaker, but with most pure boxers, though especially with Whitaker given his ability to fight off the backfoot and use angles.

 

Williams is one fighter who's overall standings/impression can increase by leaps & bounds if there were more film. Even more film of Montgomery or Jack would do wonders IMHO. There is obvious mystery there due to his sketchy ties with Blinky, & who knows how good he was, even with his impressive record.

But what a HUGE lightweight he was, with his looooong limbs. A hypothetical meeting with Doooran would have one of the scariest staredowns in boxing. Pure RAGE & disdain for each other. Why? Just because.

Top 5? At one point, he was considered the GREATEST. Due to the divison being loaded, not much separates the likes of Duran, Ortiz, Pea, Gans, & etc. in my opinion.

 

I'm surprised that you'd pick Whitaker out in particular as someone that would struggle with Williams. He probably would, but stylitically he's probably more suited than ANY other lightweight to beat Williams. I mean, if Whitaker is going to have troubles with Ike, the other lightweights are REALLY going to have trouble with him.

Ike could be outboxed, as the great jabber Willie Joyce proved one or thrice, and Montgomery did a number on him as well.

Those that are REALLY going to struggle with Ike are the boxer-punchers and brawlers, who are going to try and take it to Ike.

 

Ike IS a top 5 LW in essence, i personally have him at number 6, but its tight around that area, so he still is a top 5 guy there imo, if you get my meaning?

Ike h2h is one of the best aswell, i think Ortiz would beat him though, prime for prime. I think he would outbox Ike, had better movement aswell imo. If it got to a brawl it would be tough for both guys and Ike could win it then, but i see Ortiz doing enough of what he would have to to win this

 

I wouldn't have him at #2 but I'd have him top 5 for sure.

 

I have him at 4:
1. Roberto Duran
2. Joe Gans
3. Benny Leonard
4. Ike Williams
5. Pernell Whitaker

 

There's certainly a case for Ike Williams.
But so many other good candidates too.

 

No way Ike can be favored against Pea.. no way no how. Pea has a decided stylistic advantage over Ike.

 

Number 4 to me.....but I see a case for number 3......

Joe Gans
Benny Leonard
Roberto Duran
Ike Williams
Carlos Ortiz