Is it Controversial to Rank Roy Jones above Mayweather ?

Even his best win was a bit of a * Toney was not Toney and he deserved a rematch.

 

Had RJJ retired after the Ruiz win i guarantee alot of people would've rated RJJ in the top 10 of all time based on his H2H ability, dominance, achievements, i would've rated him above Mayweather aswell.

 

No
I rate prime Jones higher as well. A good bit higher at that.

 

Toney was coming off one his better performances against Prince Charles Williams prior to facing RJJ, if Toney couldn't get himself in proper condition for the biggest fight of his life then that's on him.

As for a rematch when could this of happened exactly ? Toney lost 12-0 to RJJ and then moved up to Light Heavyweight and lost to Montell Griffin x2 and then Drake Thadzi. If Toney would've stayed consistent at Light Heavyweight he possibly could've forced a rematch to happen but he didn't.

 

It's not RJJ's problem but the fact Toney didn't show up also means the win doesn't really mean much. Can you watch that fight and actually see James Toney? yes he "lost" to Montell Griffin x2 - The Drake Thadzi bout was suspicious... I meant more it "should've" happened opposed to it being possible. Bad wording but I think it would've fair had he got another go and we'd have got a good fight.

 

I think possibly a rematch at Heavyweight or a catchweight fight at Cruiserweight was the only real possibilities of a rematch.

For whatever reason Light Heavyweight seemed to be Toney's worst weightclass and he wasn't able to make any impression at that weight. I'm sure if Toney would've beat Griffin he probably could've got a rematch at some point, to be fair I do remember Griffin/Toney fights being somewhat controversial aswell, from memory I do believe Toney did deserve to win both fights or atleast 1 of the 2.

Ideally after Toney beat Jirov and RJJ beat Ruiz would've been a good time for a rematch.

 

You’re succumbing to revisionist history to discredit Roy’s dominant win over Toney. Roy was the #3 P4P fighter at the time. The two fighters ahead of him were an ATG lightweight (I’m sure you know who) and Toney himself, in that order. It’s not Roy’s fault that Toney was weight drained. Prime Toney would never beat prime Roy. Styles make fights and Roy was too fleet foot for Toney.

p.s. I’m a HUGE James Toney fan.

 

Based on Louis Conn I, I have prime Roy beating Joe Louis H2H. I also have him beating Floyd Patterson. Marciano is tricky. I have a hard time counting out an undefeated, murderous puncher with a titanium chin and indomitable will to win against anyone with similar height weight dimensions. Roy could win over 12. Not sure Marciano wouldn’t detonate Suzie Q at least once in a 15 rounder though.

 

I don’t know about this. Jones was under constant fire for his opposition throughout his career. At the time the Ruiz win went unheralded by many people. Top 10 of all-time following Ruiz? I think that would struggle to gain widespread traction.

 

It's an interesting discussion and, for what it's worth, I watched both their careers unfold in real time.
I think it depends on how you are ranking. Mayweather probably had the better, overall career in terms of longevity and remaining undefeated (though I don't rate him at TBE because he did often cherry pick his way through divisions).
But Roy, at his best, was better P4P. He was an incredible talent and streets ahead of the other p4p competition at the time, including Mayweather. The thought he would lose at all was completely alien. His competition is sometimes criticised (some of it fairly) but it's peppered with enough quality, for me, to silence the doubt. And HOW's he was winning was insane... barely ever dropping a round, let alone a fight. I have genuinely never seen anything like it. Probably the only other comparison I can make, if you are an MMA fan, was a peak Anderson Silva.
But the wheels completely fell off aged 34. This is actually quite old for a speed and reflexes fighter. But the losses were bad - and he continued for so long afterwards- that this really affected his position in the eyes of some fans. I do not criticise him overly for this, as he was clearly past his best beyond the end of 2003. But I understand why some do hold it against him.
Neither are perfect. But, for me, Roy ranks higher in a career and p4p sense. He was a sight to behold with an unmatched aura - and I've never seen anything else remotely close to it in 30 years of boxing.

 

To add, respectfully, to this discussion. PersonalIy, I would have had Roy top 10 all time had he retired after Ruiz - or around the top 10. In fairness, I'm not sure all would have agreed! I'm sure many would not, but certainly his stock would probably have been higher.
And I do disagree that the Ruiz win was unheralded by many at the time. A lot of publications had Jones the underdog going into that one. And I think most sensible fans recognised that Lennox Lewis was THE champion. But it was still an impressive win, even if it was overblown by some small sections of fans.

 

Similar level of fighter, I give Floyd a clear edge though

 

Roy still being vastly overrated for being fast despite failing to fight the best guys of his era. Floyd’s accomplishments and resume p*ss all over Roy’s. Floyd fought better opponents, had a better career, and was more skilled. Roy was a big left hook and flashy head movement, he wasn’t a complete fighter and he wasn’t as skilled as he’s made out to. He was predictable and repetitive with easy to counter and easy to see big looping shots he jumped into. But nobody talks about that, they just talk about his “otherworldly speed” and that’s the rationale for his high ranking 9 times out of 10.

 

no.

i think floyd but it's close so no controversy if someone says that.