Is it fair to call John L Sullivan the Kimbo Slice of his day?

With far more legitimacy.

 

Sullivan was a far more accomplished version. I’d say Sullivan was closer to Kimbo than he was to Lennox Lewis.

 

No I don't.

He was very good, but he wasn't a level above Corbett, and he lost his title to a very green version of Jeffries.

 

Fitzsimmons was definitely level above Corbett. Fitzsimmons beat Corbett cleanly for once. Secondly, Fitz 5 best wins are probably better than any Corbett's win depending on how you value his win against shot Sullivan.

Sure, Fitz lost to Jeffries but he was by far the best HW in the world until James came along.

 

While I rate Fitzsimmons resume more highly that Corbett's, I have them pretty close head to head.

Their actual fight, and their performance vs common opponents, lead me to think this.

 

Fitzsimmons knock Corbett out. I know he struggled at the beginning of the fight, but he outboxed him in the second part of the fight and won cleanly.

About common opponents, let's take a look:

Joe Choynski - Fitzsimmons basically knocked out prime Joe in the 5th round, green Joe drew with Corbett and lost in 27th round. Advantage - Fitzsimmons

Australian Billy Smith - I don't know much about these fights, Corbett won twice while young Fitz had no decision 4 rounder against him.
Advantage - Corbett

Tom Sharkey - Fitz knocked him out twice, with one DQ loss that was highly disputed. Corbett drew once against Sharkey and lost rematch against the better version of Tom.
Advantage - Fitzsimmons

James J. Jeffries - both lost twice against him, it's a draw to me.

Fitzsimmons got better of Choynski and Sharkey, how can you come to the conclusion that they are comparable?

 

I will grant you that he knocked Corbett out, but Corbett was clearly having the better of the fight up to that point.

Would he have done it again in a rematch?

Hard to say.

The counter argument to that, was that Choynski seems to have had Fitzsimmons in trouble before the knockout.

Now there I would have to disagree.

In my opinion Corbett did far better against Jeffries in their first fight, than Fitzsimmons did in either of his.

 

Fitzsimmons started to take over the fight way before the KO though. He was winning rounds after his KD, it wasn't a lucky KO punch.

To be honest, I think that Fitzsimmons solved Corbett's style and I'd bet that he'd knock him out faster than he did in the first fight. He seemed to have problems with Corbett's speed and unique style at first, but after a few adjustments he took over the fight. I don't think Corbett could adjust the other way though, he didn't have much else left.

I look at this in similar light to Louis vs Conn - yeah, Conn gave Louis problems but Joe solved him in the end.

The counter to that is Choynski's state during these fights. He was green when he faced Corbett, he was at his best against Fitzsimmons.

He lasted more, but I'm not sure if he did better than Fitzsimmons in the second fight. Most reports I've read says that the fight was competitive before the knockout and Corbett wasn't winning it easily, despite the narrative thrown here around at times.

One thing is sure - Corbett's second fight vs Jeffries is far worse than any of Fitzsimmons efforts.

Then we have another thing - Fitzsimmons faced far better opponents overall. He beat Maher twice, he beat Ruhlin, he beat Sharkey twice, he also has O'Brien while being past prime. Corbett's resume is extremely thin and I don't think he proved to be even close to Fitzsimmons overall, even if he gave him some problems h2h.

 

Widely regarded as a people's champion? Good joke.

He was a back garden brawler who had an online following. That was it.

 

None of your arguments are unreasonable here, but it comes down to the following question.

Do you think that Fitzsimmons showed himself to be on a different level from Corbett in their fight?

I submit not.

Then by all means leave it out.

The first Jeffries Corbett fight was closer on the score cards, than many people think, but I think that Jeffries needed the knockout to win.

Corbett took Jeffries to the brink of defeat, which I don't think that Fitzsimmons did, or anybody else for that matter.

You do not need to sell it to me that Fitzsimmons has a better resume.

I have argued this previously myself.

I do think that they were roughly on a par head to head however.

 

Do you think that technology might have helped them a bit there?

 

Walk up to a person in the street, and ask them who Kimbo Slice is?

They will probably respond, that they are not interested in whatever you are selling.

Now John L Sullivan falls firmly into the same category, as Jack Dempsey, and Mike Tyson.

He was the number one sport's star on the planet, and even Presidents gave him audiences, long after he retired!

 

P4P he eclipses Sullivan, as a heavyweight I don't think so.