Is it feasible to rank Wills over Dempsey in an ATG list?

Ed...All historical events must be looked at within the time period they occurred in order to logically understand how and why they occurred. If you don't you get idiots looking at a fight between Wills and Dempsey as a "unification" bout. Once again looking back on the early to mid 1920's in the minds eye of 2012. Just plain wrong to do so if the intent is to understand what and why things occurred the way the did. Dempsey was not greatly popular with the lay public until after he lost to Tunney. It would not surprise me or anyone that he was hooted at any one specific event. Once again....Wills HIMSELF did not lay any blame on Dempsey for the fight not coming off...why are you?

 

No...your the one trying to change history not me. Dempsey was one of boxings all time great fighters. So say the finest trainers and historians in boxing history. But on here they are all wrong and what the heck let's rewrite history? That's ok with you? Should not be if your a serious student of the game.

Wills stated he knew Dempsey would have made the fight if he could. He was there and he was involved in the day to day historical record. But no....let's ignore what Wills himself stated and rewrite history. That's ok with you? Should not be if your a serious student of the game.

Now if you want to ignore what Wills himself stated Dempsey backs up what Wills stated by saying he did all he could to make the fight and that Rickard who controlled boxing in those days did not want to make the fight. Again both Wills and Dempseys statements fully jive.

Now let's say you don't believe either Wills or Dempsey. Can't understand why you would since it's all about Wills and Dempsey is it not? But let's say by some magic spell both fighters are wrong about what they themselves went through. The leading boxing writer and historian of the day backs up 100 percent of what both men say did happen! What more do you want?

If your goal is to make things up for some crazy reason then that's just great....just don't call it in any way historically accurate.

 

Wills was the coloured champ, jack was the white champ. Call it what you want but given wills longevity at the top it was far from undisputed.

 

History has already been written....tool.....

By taking little snippets here and there like you are doing you are forming a false conclusion....tool.....

The historical truth is what I have been posting...no more...no less. If you dont believe it too bad...you now have a distorted viewpoint concerning boxing history.

 

Look, I entered ESB about 2 years ago..I am by nature a counterpuncher who was
disappointed at many posters who whenever Dempsey's name came up in a H2H
contest with another Hwt always mentioned he AVOIDED black fighters as Harry Wills, Langford etc, and yes using the word "racist" time and again...So if I who feel that Dempsey did sign to fight Wills ,as shown in tons of articles of the time and photos
of the signing try to defend Dempsey, I am considered a pain in the arse by some on ESB. Am I to remain silent everytime Dempsey was called a racist who never fought a black fighter even though I feel along with great boxing figures of that era that
Dempsey was willing to fight Wills but circumstances prevented their match from
taking place ? Why should I not rebut some posters who I KNOW take delight in
targeting Dempsey time and again. I NEVER started this debate, others have constantly
brought up Wills every time Dempsey's name is mentioned on ESB...Why am I the bad guy cause I try to give my point of view AFTER Dempsey's name is mentioned followed
by his failure to meet Wills ? If someone posts 2 and 2 is 5, why am I the bad guy
trying honestly to give what I believe is the correct answer ? Sure Harry Wills deserved a shot at Dempsey and didn't get it...But times were different than today and Dempsey was NOT the villain he is made out to be by some posters today 90 years later...
And as with Gibert and Sullivan I say, "the punishment don't fit the crime "...Finito I hope.

 

Mc I have read Dempsey hated to fight black fighters many many times on ESB threads and not on this particular thread. Are you denying that Dempsey has a target on his back by many on ESB . I have lost all my damn posts and threads in hurricane Sandy along with everything i held dear to me Mc and I am not on trial with you as the presiding judge...
If you truly believe that Dempsey has not been a target lo these recent years on ESB, well that is not my problem...ESB has become more of a
"social problem" forum than a boxing forum i fervently believe and I abhor politics...And what I experienced recently is a helluva lot more important to me than political correctness issues.
P.S. Remember Mc I might be on the right side of this thread...

 

Call it a duck if you like.

But the $200,000 dollars wasn't really much of an offer. Got any better ones ?

 

These links give me an alphabetical list of newspapers thats all. I don't believe any UK promoter had the dough , or would be willing to put this fight on . only a few years previously the UK governmant vetoed a proposed title defence by Johnson against Wells.

 

This is bollocks, imo.

Just as you stress that "alphabet" titles are today usually meaningful in so far as they are usually the titles that all the fighters are competing for, then Dempsey's title was the only meaningful title in his day.
No one designated it "the white championship". In fact, it was the same championship that Jack Johnson had held (and lost - to the man Dempsey was to beat).

The "colored championship" was actually quite a demeaning title, and shouldn't been much to a truly ambitious black fighter such as Wills or his management. They knew Dempsey was the champion. In fact, isn't that what the issue is ?
Dempsey was champion. Wills the most deserving challenger. That's where the controversy lies, isn't it ?

 

Is this what it's come to ?
Everyone concerned is probably either black or white ... so unless they favour the fighter who is the 'other race' to themselves, their opinions can be disregarded as biased by racial prejudice ?
And even when they do, there's some ulterior motive to undermine it.


The old "bunch of white guys" standby. Last time I checked, it was the proverbial "bunch of white guys" who told us Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson are boxing legends too.

Sadly, the world is full of white guys who can write, feverishly typing ****.
I should know. :rofl