Is it impossible to become an ATG heavyweight anymore?

Until a guy wins the championship and dominates like Iron Mike there won't be another.

Neither Klit will be a ATG when it's all over.

 

Unify and rack up the defenses.

 

Wladimir Klitschko has the resume to become one if he keeps on doing what he's doing. Unfortunately not all of losses will be avenged like Lennox Lewis did. But he is on his way to cleaning out the division. Vitali probably won't be an ATG, he has had very short title reigns but still has been very succesful in the ring. He's a 3 time heavyweight beltholder, quite an accomplishment.

 

During Tysons first reign as champ the heavyweight division was weak but he at least looked good cleaning it out. If the Klits were better to watch people would have less problem rating them with former greats.
I'm not saying thats right but just that's how I would see them getting more respect - by winning more stylishley.

 

Partial true about the sanctioning bodies but when WK and VK both hold belts and refuse to fight each other (understandably) it is even harder. They are holding the division to ransom and are in a position to pick opponents to suit each others strengths. Wlad has the potential considering his age and resume at this stage to become something but as long as Vitali is around stopping him unifying, and also clearing oponents for him

 

Wlad may still become ATG, although it does not look he is trying too hard. He more or less wasted his first 30+ fights, fighting nobodies when there were still some decent opponents available.

And now, when the division is very weak and one could clean it quickly, he fights twice a year - which does not look that bad, as long as you try not to notice half of the time he is fighting "wrong" guys like Ray Austin, Moli, Nicholson, old Mercer or shot Rahman. It did not help either that once in a while he loses, and it usually happens against one of those very carefully selected opponents ;-)

 

Vitali is no ATG, but prime Vitali would wipe the floor with most of them...

 

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If there aren't those A-grade opponents to fight, then you have to go for a quantity approach - keep winning, unify the belts and make lots of successful defences.

At present everyone feels Wlad should be #1, including me. But a lot of people think his brother is better, and the fact that Wlad vs Vitali will never happen hurts him plain and simple.

People can try to pretend the belts don't matter and that it's a new thing with co-champions or whatever but...no, it's never been that way. It's about who's best, who's THE MAN...not who's The Men.

Mark my words - Haye getting the upset win over Vitali could be the best thing that ever happened to Wladimir's career. It would give him an opponent instantly seen as quality, a chance for revenge, and a chance for three belts (well, if the WBC don't strip Vitali).

 

Lennox Lewis retired in 2003 and is rightly viewed as one of the greatest hw champions of all-time. Personally I don't believe Wlad will ever earn that status, but Vitali still could depending on how his next 3 or 4 years go. In taking the Haye fight, he is already proving he is the brother more willing to take on the toughest challengers and go for greatness.

 

We are discussing if Wlad is doing enough to become ATG. It looks like you are suggesting he should be considered ATG simple because he fights better opponents than Valuev or Maskaev.

For the record, I agree Wlad is certainly no1 today, and he is fighting tougher opponents than any other recent beltholder. He just fight in very weak era - so his only chance to become ATG would be to fight everybody and defend title enough times, something like Holmes. The problems are that:
(1) he won't fight Vitali
(2) other beltholders are reluctant to fight him
(3) even considering the first two points, he (too often) does not select the best of what is left
(4) and he still managed to lose 3 times.

 

Well its a difficult one as the two best heavyweights of this era are never going to fight each other. If Wlad and Vitali weren't brothers, and did fight, the winner would certainly be some way there.

 

ATGs are generally given that esteemed title, well after their retirement. Once the career negatives have been shaded by the positives. Many of the current men.... post 1980... will go down as ATGs... yet too many arguements are in action against many of them currently. Many of them will be agrued about for another hundred years. I guess that assures them recognition... The title, an ATG must pertain to those who are remembered, discussed, admired and argued about.

Marciano is a perfect example. In my view, Marciano was a fortunate man. In the right time/era... and the support was based on the renassiance of the WHC being white. Regardless of the men he defended against, his immortality as a legend is emphasised by his undefeated record.. An ATG for sure. Although, I feel there are countless before and after who would better him... Prime4Prime.

 

Today it would be difficult for any HW (or fighter in other weights) to be considered an all time great given the number of sanctioning bodies, and "world titles" available. When I was a kid there was one heavyweight champion of the world, everyone knew who it was and to get that accolade you had to fight, and continue to fight the best. That just isn't true anymore.

 

lewis was not recognised by america until very late in his career.

he fought on the road in his opponents backyard .

wlad does the same and just like lewis in retirement wlads stock will rise and history will have him up there imo .