Is it impossible to become an ATG heavyweight anymore?

I suppose you would have to break down their entire careers.....

Lews fought 17 champs/contenders
Wlad 14 and increasing

But - Wlad pretty much wasted his first 30 fights as someone has said......

Before Lewis had won the WBC title he had racked up a few good wins against British/Euro level competition

This isn't to compare the two as fighters, but as Lewis is the most recent ATG heavyweight, he is fresh in the memory

The fact that Lewis barely lost a round in his prime helps him too

 

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i do see your point but surely to be an all time great you need to fight and beat the best in your division, that would usually lead to fighting the other belt holders! that would be for starters than beat the up and coming contenders ie povetkin, haye, arreola etc

 

I can only hope this is a wind up. Either way it does not dignify a response.

I am no fan of Wladimir, and I will always regard him as a level below the true greats. Both because of his comparatively very poor resume, and the fact that I dont see him matching up well head to head, I dont think he could ever beat a prime, elite HW due to his poor chin and tendency to panic.

However, he can still become great. He is not that far off. He needs to unify the division primarily, become undisputed champion. Lewis managed it in a much stronger era, so can Wlad. No excuses I'm afraid, he has time on his side, and it was just as complicated to do it in Lewis' day.

Furthermore he has to keep beating contenders. Povetkin and Haye are key. Both are stand out talents who can potentially touble Wlad.

If he can unify the division and stay there for a few years, I will give him his props. He can become a good champion in a weak era, and the first true HW champion since Lewis. A guy of his talent should be able to achieve this. He will not however, reach the top 15 HW's of all time, whatever he does. He is simply too vulnerable a fighter, he does not match up head to head.

 

Before his brother became the WBC title, the other belt holder was someone that Wlad had already beat, Sam Peter. When Vitali vacated the title, the Champion becames Rahman... who Wlad just beat. Basically... the Chagaev/Valuev mess is keeping Wlad from being considered "the champ". That's just crazy. Wlad has already unified against who I actually believe was the other best title holder, Ibragimov. Other than him, I think that Povetkin is obviously the best challenger to Wlad out there right now. I have no idea why people are overlooking that. Povetkin is a beast. Other than that... Wlad HAS been cleaning out the best in his division through his last 10 fights.

 

I think Wlad and Vitali are already at least top 15-30 HWs. For starters, I can't see 15-30 HW's that I think consistently beat either brother.

Wlad has the resume to be top 15, I believe. He has beaten a lot of good fighters and still has victories to come.

 

this thread should have been replied by 2 words and then closed: Lennox Lewis

 

Tyson: Berbick, Smith, Thomas, Tucker, Biggs, Holmes, Spinks, Bruno, Carl Williams, Ruddock, Ruddock, McNeeley, Mathis Jr., Bruno, Seldon, Botha.

Lewis: Ruddock, Bruno, Tucker, Jackson, Morrison, Mercer, McCall, Akinwande, Golota, Briggs, Holyfield, Grant, Botha, Tua, Rahman, Tyson, V. Klitschko.

W. Klitschko: Schulz, Barrett, Byrd, Botha, McCline, Williamson, Peter, Byrd, Brock, Austin, Brewster, Ibragimov, Thompson, Rahman.


I have Lewis as the #3 heavyweight of all time in my book. Obviouly Wlad is not yet Top15, but he has three or four more years.

 

if anyone can eclipse joe louis record of 10+ years as champ then he gets it...

 

That is pure and utter bull****. Lots of guys who were not deserving could get shots, it was no better than today. Guys fought more because they had too, the purses weren't as big, there weren't as many big money fights, and it's how they made a living, they couldn't make a living like some guys on top now by fighting 2 or 3 times a year. Also a lot of old timers who fought multiple times a year were in fixed fights, exhibitions, or against absolute tomato cans... all of which these days would be used against any fighter who chose to take those fights "in between" title affairs.

 

Dempsey and Louis mostly fought contenders, but not necessarily the best contenders.

Johnson's championship reign wasn't great. Tommy Burns' reign was ridiculous. Marciano's reign was pretty good (in a weak era), but Floyd Patterson's reign was nothing spectacular.

Ali's second reign has guys like Evangelista, Dunn, LeDoux, etc.

Holmes fought contenders who were 15-0, 14-0, etc.

 

Valuev still can

 

WLad is what? 31, 32? Lets say he does the same (beating the **** of everyone in front of him) for 5 other years..wont be far from ATG.

 

Wlad will be recognized ATG if he continues to dominate and fight the best for the next 3 years without losing.

Vitali may be recognized if the dominates tough competition for the next 2-3 years (Haye, Gomez, Valuev, Chagaev, etc).